[little blue]

Personally I think a smallholder should have more than veg and three chickens!

Personally I think this is an elitist view.  Many people have a small amount of land and like to grow veg and have chickens who couldn't grow larger animals because they build up relationships with their animals to an extent that they cannot kill them. I could not kill a pig or a lamb or a duck or a chicken for my own food.  I am not a vegetarian but I prefer to eat meat grown by a smallholder, rather than a factory

Some people have a fair bit of land and a CPH who could in your definition be called a smallholder but who do not make proper use of that land.  I was that person.  

I am more of a smallholder now, in an acre of garden ground with a small veg patch and a small fruit patch and a cockerel and 11 hens and a drake and three ducks than ever I was with 21.5 acres and a croft number, let out to a local farmer.  OK we grew veg and had a few hens and ducks latterly but no way would I have joined any smallholders association.  I now feel very confident and very much at home as a member of Central Scotland Smallholders Association!
JMVHO

What makes you so sure my animals are all grown for slaughter??!!
They are not.
I think smallholding is as much a feeling as a label - if you don't think you 'qualify' then maybe you don't. Then again...
I would like to have the land to do a little more, but I dont want to be a farmer. I live a surburban street, with a large back garden, and couldn't comfortably have many more animals or grow more.

As for making use of the land thats a very personal decision too.  I hate people commenting on my animal keeping,(where do you have them? Have you moved? How do you find time? And worst of all - Why?!) without having seen it first, seen how much room they have, how secure they are, and how well they are looked after.
 My husband is agoraphobic - he spends all day with them, while I (sadly) have to go out and earn a living!
Just because we live in a town doesnt mean we cant do a good job.  Yes its very Tom and Barbara but I'm proud of that.
Our animals are fit and healthy and are more friendly than some people's "pet" Dogs.

Does that soud like I'm ranting?  Cos I honestly didnt mean it to!

x

[doganjo]

Little Blue
I think you maybe misread my post or misunderstood it. Or maybe I misunderstood you.  I thought you meant/said that if you grew some veg and had a few chickens you couldn't be a smallholder in your opinion.  I disagree.

I don't think I specifically implied that your animals are purely for slaughter - my apologies if I did, and does it matter anyway, some people do, some people don't?.  And I don't remember commenting on anyone's method of animal husbandry. I wouldn't have the audacity - people in glass houses etc

All I was saying was that I disagree with you about that statement.  I used to have a small croft with a CPH but we didn't utilise it as such so I wouldn't have classed myself as a small holder.  Yes I moved - to be near my family after losing my husband in a climbing accident - how does that have any relevance? - most people on here know that anyway.  I had time because the kids helped me................ I can't see the relevance in that either.
Now I have a large garden, poultry and vegetables and DO class myself as a smallholder - albeit an accidental one 

I don't have a problem with folk ranting    quite used to it, an anyway Russ is the Champ on here on that subject!

[QWOLF]

Hey Rustyme, the proccedure for goverment is ask the questions collate the data save the data to disc then lose  it .....simpills lol.

[kevkev57]

Noun , smallholding , a piece of land under 50 acres that is sold or let to someone for cultivation.

Sounds about right to me.

I think one of the lovely things about being a smallholder, is the fact that there is not one of us here that works the same. We have our own little ideas, good and bad. We get ideas of the net, handed down from relatives, think up our own etc. Wee are all pretty independantly minded folk as well. Not content with acting like our own sheep !

We do this each for SO many different reasons, far too long to put on a form for some officials.

The one thing smallholding gives me is the little glimmer of some independance. On my own land doing what I want to do when I want to do it. That my friends counts for a lot.

Kevin

[doganjo]

That's IT!  In a nutshell.  That's what Rosemary should have said to the Council person.  That definition of being sold or let for cultivation means ANYONE with a garden is a smallholder - fact!  All gardens are cultivated in some way - even the hard landscaped ones have pot plants in them.

[kevkev57]

Problem is Annie is that this official wants to know MORE than that. I share Russ's worries there, although I am not quite as paronoid as him yet ( working on it though !)

If you look at the questions asked, it gives them quite a good snapshot of ....YOU the smallholder.

I admire Rosemarys patience on this. I am afraid, file this kind of form...........in the black bin liner.

Kevin

[Rosemary]

OMG, paranoia strikes deep. It wasn't a form; the lassie phoned me and is phoning me this afternoon to discuss the research. It's for Defra and they are trying to find ways of improving communication with smallholders.

[little blue]

Parish Holding number?!  As in holding animals, not just tending the land? I dont mean to be pedantic, and I love hearing diff opinions, but I still feel smallholding has to involve an animal, otherwise is gardening, Whether is a few roses, veg, market gardening or arable.
Semantics isn't it
(I have a Horticulture qualification, but never been on any livestock type courses simply for reasons of access. But I am a smallholder as well as a land cultivator!)

Rosemary, what feedback have you had from the researcher. Did you show them this thread?!!

[kevkev57]

OMG Rosemary, they have your phone number !!!!!!!!!!!!

[northfifeduckling]

      

[Rosemary]

Yes, I showed them this thread. They are probably checking your email addresses right now. Be afraid, be very afraid. 

I agree about the holding number / gardening

[MiriMaran]

I've nearly wet myself laughing whilst I read this thread!!!!!!!!!

I suppose I'm too late to give the DEFRA lass my opinions!  Nevermind, I am pretty much with farmer all the way and only wish I could be as articulate!

I have never even bothered to consider whether I am a smallholder - I am just me and I enjoy fruit, veg, and animals.  I love getting muddy, I love watching the pigs belt down the hill, ears flapping, when its feed time.  I love watching the joy my children get from collecting the eggs, carrying the chickens around or diggin for worms.

I hope my children will learn to respect all living creatures (except for red mites!), understand where their food comes from and how important animal welfare is.  When we wanted more hens we specifically got Ex-Batts as an educational exercise for the children.  I want the children to understand their environment and the impact hat we all have on it.  I hope they will grow up to be free thinkers and no take things at face value.

I love being outside and if we could afford it we would definitely expand further into smallholding.  Yes I have a CPH number, but I don't do the Single Payment scheme as it seemed too bureaucratic and more trouble than it was worth for a 2 acre field!

[sandy]

Don't worry, I am not paranoid but I too do not like the idea of bodies of people monitoring what people are saying/doing. I will not have reward cards due to this although my OH took out a Tesco one but I will not use it, my theory, they look at my buying patterns and obviously others, then trim prices to suit, eg, what I buy all the time gets a bit more expensive and what I do not bu too often gets cheaper, I used to nitice when I had children at school, during the school holidays, children type food and drink went up!!!!! I have even bought shoes and been asked for details!!!! my brother walked out of a shop without buying a laptop for cash when they asked name address etc!!!!! It may seem trivial but NO it's not....I also will refuse to fill in such forms!!!!!!!!! Its very hard to live a private life and some people find the intrution a bit too personal.

[doganjo]

and don't forget 'the eye in the sky' - Flash Earth and Google Earth are watching you - why is there not a scary icon, Dan?

[sandy]

And those camera's WILL get clearer and better so we cn be watched ALL the time