[cowpat]

Hi all.i am currently keeping 7 pigs on a piece of land 15 metres by 10 metres.thet have eaten all the grass and given the soil a real good digging over.i am now going to move the pigs rabbit fence the plot and begin my veg plot.i am a complete beginner so any advice would be very gratefully received.thinking of getting a polytunnel aswell.
the plot is pretty well sheltered from wind and will recive full sun light.the soil seems ok?.and the land is on gravel so drains pretty well.
any ideas or advice would be great
cheers all.
Mat.

[HesterF]

Sounds like a brilliant start! I guess the next question is what do you want to grow? Normally a good place to start is what do you eat - unless you want to sell produce too. When we moved last year, I started by creating six beds which were all 2m wide by about 11m long (length varies a bit) so approximately 66m2. In those beds I have my soft fruit (five currant bushes, about 12m of various raspberries, tayberry, loganberry, rhubarb and strawbs) plus my basic veg rotation (divided roughly into peas & beans, cabbages, broccoli & Brussels, onions, garlic & root veg and a random category of tomatoes, potatoes and sweetcorn). I then decided this spring that it's not enough space - mostly because I love growing pumpkins - so we deturfed an area of 10m x 10m. In there are 3m x 3m of asparagus (about 40 crowns), three gooseberries and a couple more currants plus enough room to produce 400 pumpkins, squashes and gourds (i.e. too much but they were very prolific due to the tonnes of rotted manure that got dumped on top after deturfing).

I've not quite got the self-sufficiency balance yet. I need more space for potatoes - we had about four months worth so I'd like to double that for next year (need to work on the storage for anything more than that). We've also run out of onions and carrots which we eat loads of but I've already planted the same number of onions for next year (will probably do some more in the spring to extend their season).

Basically play and each year you'll be able to refine what you want and need. I don't have a polytunnel and I don't plan to. We're in the far South-east so our climate is good (son was eating raspberries outside earlier) and I just reckon I'd end up neglecting it. There's very little I can't grow somewhere around the place (don't have a greenhouse but have grown peppers, aubergines and chillies in the summerhouse this year with varying degrees of success) and I don't know whether I have enough time to maintain what I've already got. But I'm sure in harsher climates they'd make a huge difference and allow you to grow things that the season is not otherwise long enough - plus extending the season.

H

[Whistlin]

Sounds like an exciting project! Excellent advice from Hester.

Also have a look at Charles Dowding's website http://www.charlesdowding.co.uk/ I'm a fan of the no dig approach, but it also has some great sections on how he has taken a new garden and turned it into a productive garden in the space of a few months.

[cowpat]

wow.great advice.love the idea of a soft fruit area.will get it rabbit fenced this weekend and start planning.im thinking potatoes onions parsnips beetroot carrots courgettes runner beans garlic and so on.also an area for herbs.
cant wait.

[HesterF]

I guess with your patch, the biggest challenge is working out how to divide it up. Because you'll need to be able to get between the rows to weed but you don't want to tread down earth too much. That's why I went initially with long thin beds so I can weed and work it from the sides. It's harder with a big patch and you want to be planning which will be perennial plant areas (most herbs and soft fruits) and which will be rotated - and what order you'll rotate in. The only thing you'll be able to get in soon is the garlic although you'll be fine planting that up until Feb sort of time. Apart from that, you can take you time and plan!

[cowpat]

will this weekend be to late for planting rhubarb?.

[Odin]

Can I suggest that you print off a basic 'Crop Rotation' because it will help you to plan.
You have one of the best methods to start with, foraging pigs. They will also clean an area up after the produce preparing the ground for the next crop. Wish I pigs to clear up after my operation. Unfortunately animals are 24/7 and the owners of the land I use do not want the 'burden' of watching beast.

[cowpat]

I am a complete beginner with this.i don't really understand about crop rotation.im going to have some soft fruits but im asumeing they will be in a permanent bed.other stuff like potatoes cabbages onions and stuff I guess would need rotating but im lost as to what where and how.going to be a busy year for me.veg garden pigs couple of ewes in lamb to keep grass down chickens' meat and egg layers and who knows what else?.
any advice on crop rotation would be great though.thanks.

[Lesley Silvester]

Unless you plan on using chemicals, I would look on www.gardenorganic.org.uk for advice. Better still, join the organisation. I've been a member for years and have had some very good advice over the years.

[Odin]

Just punch 'crop rotation' into google and the simplest charts to print off are there. As a beginner you don't need to understand the science as that will come with the successes and mistakes. Just grow what you choose from the chart, keep a diary ... yes a diary... and see where you are in 12 month. But you have a head start if pigs have cultivated and manured your land. However, potatoes are always the best place to start.

[HesterF]

Re.rhubarb, I think there's a cold snap coming so that wouldn't be great. If you're planting a crown, there's a danger it'll just rot in cold, wet soil. If you've got the option, wait until spring - you could always put it in a pot until then (again making sure it doesn't freeze through).

You're right, crop rotation is mostly for annual veg. Strawberries are worth shifting every few years but most soft fruit stays put. The general gist is that you divide into four or five groups. The exact groupings vary a little and there are some veg that you can just plant wherever each year but the general principle is that there are some diseases that will proliferate if you grow the same veg in the same place each year so you want to move than round so the ground gets a change of veg each year. Different crops also take different nutrients and give back different nutrients - so peas and beans fix nitrogen in the soil, for example, so I believe that benefits calabrese to follow them. I've divided mine into four groups - calabrese (cabbages, broccoli, Brussels, cauliflower), legumes (peas and the various beans), root veg (carrots, beetroot, parsnip and I have onions, garlic and leeks in that group too) and the 'fruit' (slightly random group with tomatoes, potatoes and sweetcorn, did have courgettes but I've moved them to the pumpkin patch now). I then bung in salad stuff wherever I end up with a space.

It's definitely worth reading around a bit and seeing how others arrange their veg beds because it'll give you some ideas about how to arrange your plants. Some work with small blocks, some with rows. There are also benefits of companion planting - quite often herbs can help with other plants. I'd spend the next couple of cold months doing that, planning and ordering your seeds and then you'll be all ready to kick off in spring.

H

[cowpat]

thanks H.
re to companion plants my dad said to plant a row of spuds then onions then spuds then onions etc.aparantly the onions deter a fly that gets to the spuds.is this correct?.

[HesterF]

Not heard it before but that doesn't mean anything - I'm only one step ahead of you.... By the way, I've just read an article in Gardening Which? (got a free copy and it's brilliant!) about rhubarb and it says to plant crowns in November/December so I take back the above comment!

H

[cloddopper]

Hi all.i am currently keeping 7 pigs on a piece of land 15 metres by 10 metres.thet have eaten all the grass and given the soil a real good digging over.i am now going to move the pigs rabbit fence the plot and begin my veg plot.i am a complete beginner so any advice would be very gratefully received.thinking of getting a polytunnel aswell.
the plot is pretty well sheltered from wind and will recive full sun light.the soil seems ok?.and the land is on gravel so drains pretty well.
any ideas or advice would be great
cheers all.
Mat.

 I s the ground looking like a water logged moon scape full of pig leg sized puddles ?
If so save your back and energy ... hire a decent rotovator  and give it four or five thrashings up & down , left to right and diagonally in one or two dry windy days to  get it levelled out dried off & aerated  .

Then use string and pegs to mark out beds & path ways keep the paths to three feet wide if you can for crops do tend to grow over the edges  .. small width  paths can become almost impassable with a wheel barrow due to crops  in a good year  .
Use planks to walk over the beds so you don't compact the soil , that usually entails a bed of not much wider than  3 to 4mtrs wide.   

The longer the bed the greater temptation there is to walk across it for a short cut ..especially if your carrying water,  8 mtr beds are  ideal in this respect.

[cowpat]

the ground is not water logged at all. its well drained nice dark soil over gravel.infact they are just starting to extract gravel next to me.the  only trouble I have with it is creating a wollow for the pigs in summertime.
im a bricky by trade so I have plenty of line for marking out .
thanks for the advice.
has anyone got any advice as to where to order my seeds and stuff from.just wondereing if ebay is ok?.