[Stereo]

We have a mixed flock of LS, speckledy, pure RIR, RIR/LS cross, legbar, welsummer and some mungrels we inherited. Most of our birds are 2013 hatch, some 2012 and some of the odd ones maybe older.

It looks like we might have myco in the flock, a few sneezes here and there and poorly hen (see other thread). But we use ACV and keep everything clean so we are hopeful it won't be a huge problem. It does mean that until we are sure, we won't be adding birds or moving birds on anywhere else. So, it's a closed flock but laying well. If we have got myco then at some point they will all have to go and we'll have to move the whole operation to another field, well away with new hens.

So, question is, what is the likely performance of hens as they get older. We know the industry is only interested in the first 18 months. But we get probably on average about 200 eggs per bird, going on this year, rather than the 320 of a laying machine.

Can I expect this batch of hens to go on laying for 2-3 years at a decent rate? I'm told not but thinking back to my childhood, my mum use to pick up ex bats and we had about 100 and they only ever got culled when they were old and giving up. We never culled for laying performance reasons. Lots of eggs as I recall too.

[jaykay]

I reckon that pullets lay pretty much most days, second year hens lay every other day, and then the gaps between eggs just widen after that.

Mind you, I keep traditional breeds not hybrid egg-laying machines.

My hens see their lives out with me - as I see it, they've earned their retirement 

[hughesy]

In my expereience with traditional breeds, LS, RIR, Ixworth etc their winter lay off will get longer though they might still lay well in the lighter months. If you hatch early enough to get them in lay before winter they'll keep going reasonably well through the dark months but in their second winter will moult and stop laying. My plan is to hatch enough replacements every year and get rid of the older birds, either selling them on or culling if necessary. I've slipped up this year having been preoccupied with the pigs and left us nearly eggless this winter.

[Victorian Farmer]

The hens need to be replaced naw and again if its eggs get the best a bared rock cross vaccinated will lay well for 4 season's utilatey line and lay in the winter .25 of my hens lay more than a frends 50 hens .

[Veronica]

We only had hens for three years before they were all killed, though hopefully will be getting them again next spring now that we have moved to country and can have them in the garden.

A few were poor buys, in laying terms, and I gave them away. Others were still only in their second season when they were killed, but two Cream Legbars were in their 4th season and still laying pretty well.

Over time I got more and more interested in having trad breeds which, I hoped, from what I'd been told and read, would lay fewer eggs at the start than a hybrid but would carry on laying for longer. I know I will struggle to kill off older hens that have stopped laying - and I still feel guilty about the ones
I gave away to a local pets corner where I know they got less good care than from they got from me - but I don't mind feeding a hen that is still laying a few eggs and then has a couple of years of none at all. I had this vision of hybrids having a very long non-laying old age - but perhaps they don't live that long!

[Veronica]

 And yes, Victorian Farmer, Black Rocks were recommended to me as ones that would lay for four years.

Meant to say  my general approach was to add to the flock every couple of years so they are not all the same age. Seem fellow allotmenteers had bought eight chickens to start with but were absolutely adamant that you could not introduce new ones to an existing flock so waited and waited until the very last, ancient hen died before they got new ones!

We introduced new ones twice, following usual advice of keeping them separate but where they could see each other in daytime and shutting in together at night - and both times were fine.

[Victorian Farmer]

get a hatch of eggs from me in the spring they are best roads crossed whith amrock bared rock they look great and tame

[chrismahon]

Around 1900 a French scientist did a study of egg laying and concluded that all hens only have approximately 600 eggs to give regards of breed, so you either get them fast or get them slow. My experience roughly supports his findings, although some of the hybrids we have had, kept to their natural lifespan, only produced half that number. But then they are now only designed to deliver for one year anyway. Obviously 100 years ago the breeds were purebred, unrefined and their laying pattern was projected into their 9th year in this study.


Taken in years after hatching they would produce 15 -20 in their first year, 100 -120 second, 120 -135, 100- 115, 60 -80, 35 -40 and in the ninth 1 -10.

[Veronica]

That's really interesting. So if I am soft and don't like killing them off, my previous practice and plan for the future kind of works - that is not to have all the same age but add to the flock every so often, and try to find the most affordable ways of feeding them if expecting to feed them for longer. And I suppose it also means it's a good idea to keep them healthy and laying until late on in life if you want to get out most eggs for your original investment!

[Marches Farmer]

I keep my rare breed large soft-feathered fowl through their first Winter, when they'll lay 6 or 7 eggs a week, then aim to sell them before their second Winter, either before or after the moult. They'll lay quite well for their new owners but not as well as they did through their first Winter.  We rely on farm gate egg sales to underwrite our breeding programme costs so this system works well for us.

[Victorian Farmer]

Very good idea or sell in November and get new in march no feed through winter .And saving 4 months work and feed.

[Stereo]

Our initial plan was to hatch replacement birds as early in the year as is sensible with a view to them laying proper sized eggs by Oct/ Nov. Hopefully then they go through  the winter and on into next year with a moult probably around Oct. At this point the next lot are in lay and the first lot are sold on as still very productive hens but you don't have to feed them through moult and through the dark days. Also easier on the ground / less cost in bedding etc.

However, I'm not wondering whether it wouldn't be wise to keep them through the second winter and move them on as they approach 2 1/2 years old. They should still be laying well, the eggs will be nice and big and they should still be viable for someone else to take on as a pet etc. We are doing breeds like Marans, RIR, Sussex, Welsummer etc. so it's not like they will be all laid out. Also at this age, the best could be selected for breeding pen replacements. It should also mean that every winter you have 2 ages of hen so laying may be more consistent?

[chrismahon]

You should select your breeding birds a from those at least 2 years old Stereo, preferably older as that removes the genetic 'sudden deaths'. You need to be selecting hens that moult quickly and get back to laying. Gale Dumelows book 'Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens' has a section all about it. Older birds will not lay in Winter, first years birds will. So perhaps reducing the number of the old birds gradually would be better. After all you won't be able to sell them all in one go anyway -the market for them is limited.

[Stereo]

Yes, we're more interested in the breeding  hatching egg side of things anyway really. The egg sales are never going to be more than a sideline even if we went for the total hybrid egg machines. So we decided early to concentrate on rarer breeds and pretty eggs with extremely high welfare. I'll have a look at that book, thanks. Sounds interesting.