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Author Topic: 100 acre Farm Question  (Read 11552 times)

brendan lyons

  • Joined Oct 2013
100 acre Farm Question
« on: October 21, 2013, 01:03:56 pm »
Hi

On a 100 acre beef farm, is it possible to make good profits if you manage it well. Lets say you have 50-60 animals in total with  any calves kept for heifers/bullocks and then sold at one and half years- two years. Lets say up to 70-90 acres is good pasture, how much profit would you be expected to make if any?
Voss Electric Fence

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2013, 01:06:04 pm »
With that size of operation, it may also be worth asking the question on The Farming Forum or British Farming Forum  :thumbsup:

devonlad

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • Nr Crediton in Devon
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2013, 01:37:23 pm »
A good friend of mine farms on a very similar scale. he started 5 years ago and soon discovered that he couldn't make it pay by simply producing beef at that scale- he had to add value. he now is breed specific (Dexters in his case) and not only breeds and raises but also markets the finished product. he has found that he has to get straight to the end user to keep his margins viable so does a huge amount of farmers markets and food fairs. For beef farmers it's a long time between cheques so he started raising a few chickens last year. he now produces 200 a month, from a fairly simple system and again sells them direct, which keeps a regular income. I'm not sure he would describe it as a good living, but its a living- then again maybe he's not the greatest farmer in the world, though he seems pretty good to me

henchard

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Two Retirees Start a New Life in Wales
    • Facebook
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2013, 01:41:44 pm »
Hi

On a 100 acre beef farm, is it possible to make good profits if you manage it well. Lets say you have 50-60 animals in total with  any calves kept for heifers/bullocks and then sold at one and half years- two years. Lets say up to 70-90 acres is good pasture, how much profit would you be expected to make if any?

Are you including the capital start up costs i.e. best part of £750,000 to a million pounds that a good 100 acres (with house) would cost to buy together with the cost of stock and equipment?


Would the farm also have SFP entitlements?

My gut reaction is say that unless the farm was inherited you'd be unlikely to make a decent living from it and would probably need supplementary income from contracting etc.

domsmith

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • sanquhar, dumfries and galloway
    • sunnyside farm
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2013, 09:12:31 pm »
Haha!

If your looking for a business, straight business you cannot work 100ac and make a profit. escpecially when you look at your capital investment.
you mention 60-70 cattle. to start that up. so you have 60-100k to start. you profit on the suckled calves or stores wont add up to more than bank interest. and you havent even touched the machinery and other bits.
on a 100ac where would your silage come from? how would you graze your weanlings, cows and cut on that sized area.
you will need sfp.

then you could look at the niche side of things, finish your own cattle and sell it all. loads of work and profitable? not really.

if you have the land for free, you can get a herd going for little or nothing, then you can live a lifestyle. you wont make money but get by.
if your interested i have 15 dexter cows for sale to get you started.

live the dream!

dom

brendan lyons

  • Joined Oct 2013
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2013, 12:09:07 am »
Hi

On a 100 acre beef farm, is it possible to make good profits if you manage it well. Lets say you have 50-60 animals in total with  any calves kept for heifers/bullocks and then sold at one and half years- two years. Lets say up to 70-90 acres is good pasture, how much profit would you be expected to make if any?

Are you including the capital start up costs i.e. best part of £750,000 to a million pounds that a good 100 acres (with house) would cost to buy together with the cost of stock and equipment?


Would the farm also have SFP entitlements?

My gut reaction is say that unless the farm was inherited you'd be unlikely to make a decent living from it and would probably need supplementary income from contracting etc.

Yes the farm is inherited, single farm payment per year around £3000

brendan lyons

  • Joined Oct 2013
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2013, 12:11:16 am »
Haha!

If your looking for a business, straight business you cannot work 100ac and make a profit. escpecially when you look at your capital investment.
you mention 60-70 cattle. to start that up. so you have 60-100k to start. you profit on the suckled calves or stores wont add up to more than bank interest. and you havent even touched the machinery and other bits.
on a 100ac where would your silage come from? how would you graze your weanlings, cows and cut on that sized area.
you will need sfp.

then you could look at the niche side of things, finish your own cattle and sell it all. loads of work and profitable? not really.

if you have the land for free, you can get a herd going for little or nothing, then you can live a lifestyle. you wont make money but get by.
if your interested i have 15 dexter cows for sale to get you started.

live the dream!

dom

Ok, the farm in question in my fathers. Everything is there for me and my brother, considering this, is it possible to make profits. We are thinking of targeting a breed like angus.

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2013, 03:32:31 pm »
It's not how much money you make but how much you make minus how much you pay out.  If you have the land, infrastructure, knowledge and willingness to work and invest in good genetics then .....

domsmith

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • sanquhar, dumfries and galloway
    • sunnyside farm
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2013, 07:37:09 pm »
£3000 sfp is not alot.

i think if your looking for a business my advice still stands you will struggle. if you want a lifestyle, one that might be a change for you then go for it.

thats what i did. changed my lifestyle bought a farm set up a butchery business gathered livestock sold meat. yes it worked but am i rich..... no but do i have a good life.... yes.

do your business plan and look if it adds up. suckler cows are a guaranteed loss unless you can add value and make it work another way.

dominic

brendan lyons

  • Joined Oct 2013
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 10:25:49 pm »
£3000 sfp is not alot.

i think if your looking for a business my advice still stands you will struggle. if you want a lifestyle, one that might be a change for you then go for it.

thats what i did. changed my lifestyle bought a farm set up a butchery business gathered livestock sold meat. yes it worked but am i rich..... no but do i have a good life.... yes.

do your business plan and look if it adds up. suckler cows are a guaranteed loss unless you can add value and make it work another way.

dominic

why are suckler cows a guaranteed loss?

domsmith

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • sanquhar, dumfries and galloway
    • sunnyside farm
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2013, 07:12:31 pm »
cost of keeping the cows outways the return on 1 suckled calf per year. unless your going to do something special.

if you could get some more  sfp or you are lfass or can claim beef calf scheme but i dont think you are in scotland.

dominic

Carse Goodlifers

  • Joined Oct 2013
  • Perthshire
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 09:34:47 pm »
Before I start, I don't have any land but would love to have the opportunity that you have.

Quote: 'We are thinking of targeting a breed like angus.'

To be honest, I don't think Angus are anything special.
When at college (some 5-9 years ago now) a lecturer of mine always said - 'small cow, small feedbill, small vet bill, small housing cost.'.
Look at something that would be hardy and different - a niche breed for market almost.
Speak to local butchers - do they support rare breed beef?  Same with local restaurants.

What about sheep?  Buying in lambs at the back end and fatten over the following 6-8 weeks on kale/turnips and hay.

At the recent Smallholder Show in Lanark, I asked the question 'What size of smallholding do you need to make a profit?' The answer: 10-15 acre. 
Before I get shot - I realise that the 2 sectors are vastly different.

Think out of the box - turkeys for Christmas? 
Make good quality hay and sell it?  Fatten lambs on the hay aftermath.

I would also say, that you don't necessarily need a lot of machinery either depending on what you go for.
Again from college days - 'sometimes the profitable farms have the minimum inputs'
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 09:39:43 pm by Carse Goodlifers »

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 09:41:24 pm »
My friend bred Aberdeen Angus, top quality beasts, the bulls sell for 10 grand Etc. He had 70 acres and made a good profit and had family to share machinery and labour with, but he said it wasn't enough to live on. He had no sfp.

YoungRasher

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • DERBYSHIRE
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2013, 09:07:36 am »
Have you not got any buildings that would be suitable for stables. its a good income and if you do it so they have to but the haylage and straw through you you can make a bit more.

domsmith

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • sanquhar, dumfries and galloway
    • sunnyside farm
Re: 100 acre Farm Question
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2013, 11:36:50 am »
My friend bred Aberdeen Angus, top quality beasts, the bulls sell for 10 grand Etc. He had 70 acres and made a good profit and had family to share machinery and labour with, but he said it wasn't enough to live on. He had no sfp.

so top quality beasts selling for 10k and still not enough to live on!

dont be fooled by reading the headline prices of bull sales. you will need to spend serious on genetics to get those prices.

your obviously young and keen to give it a go, why not farm part time. go work for someone else and do your farm on the side until you can get going. or get going with catering at festivals etc. it requires a big input to start with but should, with the right product, pay you back.

dont be put off by my negative vibes, i thought at first you where the usual dreamer looking at getting into it. your obviously not and you have the foot in the door.

d

 

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