[Applescrumper]

Hello,

new member here, looking forward to getting joined in and advice from those in the know. We are moving to a smallholding in Mid Wales in 4 weeks time (8 acres sloping to valley floor pasture, single block, good quality) and today we took a look around some country stores and it has dawned on me that I havent a clue what I am going to do with it.

We have vague ideas about planting SRC willow for fuel, or even planting woodland on a hectare wiht a grant, raising sheep (what breed, how many, how to we transport, shear etc), possibly fattening weaners and keeping chickens etc, but our experience is limited to raised beds and fruit trees.

The range of possible equipment needed (?ATV, compact tractor, toppers, harrow, fencing - do we need a trailer and if so what sort) is daunting and I really dont know what I should start with. Just hay crop and rent the field out for a year until we figure out what to do?

If anyone has any suggestions what/where to begin, Id be very grateful. It looks potentially very rewarding but possibly costly if you make fundamental mistakes. Is it sensible to divide the field into smaller blocks for sheep?

[doganjo]

Try to find a local Smallholders group/club.  Go on a few courses - a sheep one before you buy any would be a good idea.

[henchard]

Hi and welcome is the field fenced and does it have a water supply? In which case I'd be tempted to find someone local to graze it for the first year whilst you find your feet and decide what you are doing. It's surprising how you sometimes need to live in a place first to see the possibilities.

Don't get too hung up on what you might need there are usually people around who will do small contracting jobs for you (hedgecutting springs to mind) and this is often the way to go until you decide what you ACTUALLY need yourself.

[Small Plot Big Ideas]

I was in much the same position as you a few months ago and possibly one of the best things I did was agree to buy the previous owner's quad and very small trailer from them. Worth every penny for lugging things around between barns/fields/woods even if it is a bit temperamental with starting

Many of the larger and more technical bits of kit can be borrowed or rented so I'm not that worried about getting those yet. It's only now (4 months later) that we have needed to think about buying a proper livestock trailer for example.

Do your best to make friends with the locals though and don't be afraid to ask for help or advice!



Oh yes...and make sure you have some money left over because there's always more smaller things to buy! In my case it was a heavy duty lawn mower, strimmer and in the very near future a chainsaw - none of which come cheap but then I wanted to buy brand new in the hope they last a bit longer!

[Dogwalker]

Hi there
Whereabouts in Mid Wales?
 
Remember everyones related so watch what you says to people you meet.

[AndynJ]

The one thing you'll defineately be needing be a chainsaw small ish like 16" will do stihl, echo or husky oh and brand new, get yourself half a dozen ex farm chickens at £2 each enjoy & learn let someone stick sheep on, in return for something plus you'll learn about sheep at the same time, lots to think about depends if  it's just for you or you want to earn from it. personally I wouldn't bother with the grants for 2 acres nor would I plant 2 acres out of 8 with trees, it's amazing how many trees are in a hedgerow, willow is good look at poplar, birch, silver birch, beech and hazel all but the birch can be coppiced therefor producing more timber.
gallwch siarad Cymraeg ?

[Castle Farm]

Best advice I can give is make haste slowly. Don't take to much on, as winter is coming and you need to bed in a bit before rushing out and getting stock.

Don't buy any bits of kit till you can quantify thier costs. Smallholding is a money pit and if your not carefull your going to spend to much on the wrong thing.

I'm in Powys near Hay-on-Wye and if you want any advice get in touch.

[Fleecewife]

Hi there
Whereabouts in Mid Wales?
 
Remember everyones related so watch what you says to people you meet.

 
How very very true 
 
 
I would agree about not rushing into buying loads of equipment and stock before you know what you will be doing and needing.   8 acres will seem huge at the moment but you certainly won't need large equipment unless you put the whole lot down to cereals or hay.
 
The tip to live on the place for a year before you commit to a plan is a good one.  That way you see your land though the year, learn about the soil and climate, and see what will and what will not grow there.  You will discover for example where the frost pockets are, which way the wind whistles worst, whether you get snowed in in the winter, whether more work needs to be done on the house, and you will also meet your neighbours.  All these things are best learned by experiencing them rather than just asking around, although asking around helps too
 
You would have time in that first year to set up a veggie plot (with the proviso that you might put it in the wrong place until you know the land better) and to buy and learn about a few laying hens.  It would be more sensible to wait until you know your land better before choosing where to plant any fruit trees.
 
For your big equipment, wait until you actually need it before you buy it or you will have some unused stuff around which has used up capital you could have spent on other essentials.
 
Don't underestimate how much time and effort smallholding takes.  Every job takes twice as long as you think, and all your work is weather dependent. On top of that there are endless unexpected urgent things which have to be done immediately and can't wait until you finish what you had started.  Especially once you have livestock whose welfare is your prime responsibility. That is why Castle Farm's advice to make haste slowly is good.  Rushing in with every idea you have had put in place could well end up with you being overwhelmed.  I have seen it before and suddenly the smallholding is back on the market.
 
 
There is so much info in the archive of TAS.  There have been plenty of other newbies needing advice, so spend some time working through all of that, and seeing what is applicable to your situation.   Nobody will mind repeating themselves, as everyone on here is so willing to help, but they do all have their own work to do too and it's sensible to find out as much as you can from the archive.  Before long you will be giving the advice to another newbie 
 
Good luck and do keep us updated with your progress, and wave any new ideas in front of TASers for some great advice.

[pgkevet]

A lot of decision-making has to come down to 'needs' rather than 'wants'.
I bought mine knowing full well it was for playtime rather than the need for an income and more to do with limiting losses on the cost of ownership than any belief in living off it. Mileages will vary.

It may also be a question of what you can legally do with your land and your level of energy/ capacity for work and how that may change over the next several years.

Some simplistic examples.
Woodburners sound a nice ideal.. until you factor in the amount of time spent collecting/processing and storing your fuel, the costs of installation and the mess associated.. smoke dust and soot and chimney sweeping costs and redecorating. I've got 2 very efficient burners but if I didn't have my own unlimited timber I'd stick with oil or gas for an easy life.

If you were just raising sheep on 8 acres then I'd guess you could handle 40 ewes and buy in extra fed.. you'ld be lucky to make £8K gross unless breeding rare breeds (not the best place for a beginner to start)

On the other hand 8 acres of broiler sheds would be a huge business and 8 acres for fruit trees would be massive undertaking come harvest time assuming you can find a market.

I'm just playtime but a couple of decent greenhouses (I like to look out rather than polytunnel opacity) gives me more salad/toms/peppers etc than we can consume and a 1/4 acre veggie patch more than enough staple veggies so that i give surplusses away all the time - but you still need bread/rice/oil etc.

If you think outside convention then a sheltered bit of Wales can support cold hardy variants of a lot of unexpected stuff for the good years - apricots, pecans, grapes, hickory nuts, monkey puzzle nuts - if you can wait for those plantings to mature, as well as less common ideas such as honey-berries and perhaps strawberry trees. Then there's more commercial trees like sweet chestnut and filberts using nut varieties or timber varieties

[Bramblecot]

  welcome.

Lots of questions...what has the land been used for previously?  And was it successful?  How are the neighbouring fields used?  And who farms them?  Is the fencing stock-proof Do you have road access, water and any outbuildings/field shelters/barns?  And most important, what would you like to do?
Best advice, IMO , is get to know the neighbours.  You will be the subject of chat and speculation about what is going to happen to that very nice field you own . 

Please don't be in any hurry to buy stock especially with winter coming.  Bed in and get a feel for the place.  Good luck, it sounds lovely

[john and helen]

well you made the start already by asking ... 
I had a great tip from one of the members here (Andyj) he said, which makes total sense, put some grass seed down , this will give you great fields for next year

i have been looking at google earth and looking at images of the land we are buying... making plans for each area,
you like i , will make a few mistakes, but that is the learning curve, start slow, read loads and ask loads...
but the main thing is...enjoy

PS...I need a red tractor 

[HesterF]

We've 8 acres and have been in for 18 months and it's been evolving gradually. It's all grass - some formal garden but mostly just nice, mown grass. Our first purchase was a compact tractor which has been brilliant - it's got the mowing deck attached underneath (you can remove it but we've never bothered because we mostly use it to mow) and we have a trailer for it so pulling big stuff around is easier. Currently considering a front loader and plough but that's because our other plans are now crystallising.

I knew before we moved in where I wanted the veg beds so they were deturfed within weeks (days) and established very early (and still going strong) BUT I did need more space so we then deturfed an additional 'pumpkin patch' (actually asparagus and additional fruit bushes as well as pumpkins, gourds, courgettes and squash) earlier this year. I also knew I wanted a handful of chickens and ducks so we had a run put up for them a few months after we moved in but that has grown rather quicker than I expected and now we have 18 chickens, 17 ducks and four geese with plans to breed more next year - so we've had to have an even bigger run built.

I also planned to have sheep but after a quote for fencing and going a sheep course, I was rapidly convinced that I didn't really like sheep and there was no way on earth they'd ever make money for us.

We've also gradually worked out fruit trees and now have three separate orchards - 15 cherry trees in one (where the bees now live as well), 20 newly planted apples and pears (inside the new poultry enclosure, more will be planted this year) and plums and gages have been put in with an establish Bramley apple orchard.

And my latest venture is to buy an apple crusher, press and pasteuriser so I can produce juice for myself and others - hygiene certificate allowing. Future plans are now for a vineyard on two acres (south west facing, gently sloping chalk downland), a holiday cottage (building work next year) and possibly some weaners for sausages but I'm not so convinced about that.

At the end of all that, my point really is that it's hard to imagine what you'll need until you're there. We did have some plans but whilst some did reach reality (chickens, veges), some were miles off (sheep) and some we hadn't even considered (holiday cottage, vineyard, juice producing) - and I'm sure many will continue to change. I'm clear that we're dabbling in all sorts and none of it is making any money yet (it would still be cheaper to buy my eggs from Tescos) but we are relatively self sufficient and I hope the money makers will become clear (I have high hopes for juicing other peoples' apples for them). We have spent loads on various equipment and some has barely been used (e.g. the chipper/shredder) - it can be hard to imagine what you'll actually use a lot before you get it but hiring stuff for a day is not bad value depending on the delivery costs. Then you'll get a feel for what you actually need to buy - and what to look for when you buy.

Enjoy the planning!

H

[MAK]

Some great advice above but just be warned that a lot of us ask your question of ourselves every morning. Where to begin?

[Womble]

I really wish I'd read this thread three years ago! 

I'd move in, buy some chooks, rent the land for sheep, then actually take things at about 1/4 the pace you think. The reason I say that is that just about everything else we did in OUR first year has had to subsequently be moved or re-done once we got to know the land, and our plans developed.

The advice to look at what your neighbours are doing, then copy is definitely good. They've had generations to figure out what plants grow well, which breed of sheep is best, etc etc.

What state is the house in?  If there's a lot of work to do, it would be wise to tackle that first so you have somewhere comfortable as a base, rather than taking on too much - all of the outdoor things will suck time and demand priority, which makes the house stuff slow down, which can make everything feel uncomfortably unsettled (said the man who's had no living room now for 10 months and counting!  )

A small livestock / box trailer would be a good investment (it's surely got to be an Ifor P7e for Wales  ), along with something to tow it with. Apart from that, everything else can either wait or be borrowed until it's actually needed.

Have fun!