[lachlanandmarcus]

Deer do carry TB and share ground with cattle but they are super hosts (ie they catch it easily and die of it fairly rapidly)  rather than the super carriers and super shedders of TB that badgers are,  which is what makes badgers different and so important to eradicate TB in. In addition, badgers can have the front and strength to break into feed stores and even eat out of troughs with nose to nose contact with the cattle.


In addition control is simplified as deer like other nonnendangered species without predators can be controlled where necessary by shooting....which is the level playing field that badgers are now experiencing, mysteriously very controversially...

[Shropshirelass]

That's fair comment & people forget alpacas add to the problem to but testing them is not 100% acurate but a lot of people either don't think or don't care when buying stock like these to have tested stock & I don't think many owners would want their alpacas killed as their more seen as pets but say for example they got foot & mouth they would have to be compulsory killed so I think enforcement in alpacas should be done with regards to TB testing & the slaughter regs that are the same as cattle as they are still technically livestock & are known carriers of bovine TB.

[lachlanandmarcus]

That's fair comment & people forget alpacas add to the problem to but testing them is not 100% acurate but a lot of people either don't think or don't care when buying stock like these to have tested stock & I don't think many owners would want their alpacas killed as their more seen as pets but say for example they got foot & mouth they would have to be compulsory killed so I think enforcement in alpacas should be done with regards to TB testing & the slaughter regs that are the same as cattle as they are still technically livestock & are known carriers of bovine TB.

I think they would do compulsory testing if the test worked even fairly well on the species, trouble is it doesn't, it's only about 50% on cattle, but much worse on camelids. So they can't make it compulsory. However if TB is found, the animals will be slaughtered, my understanding is the largest case involved several hundred being slaughtered in the UK.


The risk from camelids to date has been highest for their owners cause of their spitting habits which is ideal way to give the owners TB...however there is a risk to cattle and sheep too so any responsible camelid owner in a TB medium or high risk area should have a wide double fencing separating them from cattle and sheep if in a TB area, especially cattle belonging to someone else. And stock should be tested for what worth and also only bought from a TB area clearer or as clear as your own.


We live next to one of the top UK breeders of AA and Charolais breeding bulls, and even if I wanted to acquire any camelids, given that scenario there is no way I would consider acquiring any as it would be unneighbourly to introduce that risk IMO.

[shygirl]

these badgers are getting a new set for £120k.
slightly ironic when others are being shot.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=599548060083496&set=a.179878192050487.37031.167269466644693&type=1&theater

[cloddopper]

I don't agree with it because I can't see how it will be effective - others animals carry tb; only culling some badgers (presumably some left alive may still have it); only in some parts of the country (don't all badgers get it?!).  So until the powers that be convince me otherwise with evidence, I don't like it. <ducks>

Ps. But I don't keep cattle

 I'm not 100%  sure but is not the badger TB the same as Cattle TB & that other animal TB's are different and as yet not cross infecting?

[cloddopper]

There is a one off golden opportunity to prove or disprove the link
 and that is by making the whole of the ismuth from say Plymouth to Bristol a fully culled deer & badger free zone that is also cattle free ( gosh that would be expensive ) for ten years or so to enable pathogens in the soil to die out and then reintroduce disease free cattle for five or more years testing all the time every four months or so whilst keeping up with the culling of any badgers or deer seen  .

 Though to me common sense would indicate that this would only mirror the Irish cull results .

 It would also be wonderful if Mr & Mrs brock and  their kiddiewinks would all come to the nice person with a syringe to get anti TB  vaccinated , get tagged & tattooed then gaily pop along to  tell their neighbours to come and get sorted as it is free and enhances their life quality .

 I think the ineffectiveness of any vaccine has to be a massive reason for also allowing a cull to start and be carried on for a reasonable time to see if the findings are correct .
 
What did it cost in compensation alone to the UK farmers last year £ 4.3 billion
That's not to mention the large numbers of farming folk who have had massive secondary uncompensatable losses going out of business.

 I suppose the thoughts behind the culling is a bit like cutting or spraying  weeds .
Keep cutting/spraying  the weeds down and the problem become a lot more manageable . Don't do anything and you'll get overrun with them and lose out big time .

[nicandem]

For the reasons above I agree with the cull until such time as a more effective, both medically and financially, method is available.


Most of the passion and anti feeling comes from the TV and kids books vision of animals... i look forward to the Walt Disney film regarding Badgers portrayed as heroes escaping the hordes of shooters to reach the promised land of milk and vaccine

[sabrina]

I feel for any farmer that has to put down cattle due to TB. As I have said before we are overrun with badgers, they are lovely creatures to watch but destroy other wildlife such as birds and hedgehogs. Even if there was no link to TB badgers still need some form of control just as the deer and foxes to keep them from over breeding.

[cloddopper]

Looks like we'll have to follow the Scottish green geeks demands and re introduce the wolf .

  Hand's up those who are able or willing to train wolves to be loners and not pack animals to eat only badgers, foxes and rabbits 

[SallyintNorth]

I watched a really interesting program about Yellowstone recently.  They were able to attribute a tremendous increase in biodiversity at all levels to the reintroduction of the wolf.

The wolf, hunting in packs, predates the larger animals- in this case, elk etc, in Scotland it would be red deer I guess - and mostly doesn't bother with the smaller prey as there isn't enough meat there to feed the pack.  So I would conclude that it would be any lone wolves who would be more of a concern to farmers, rather than the packs. 

Farmers would need to start using guardian dogs, I guess - Maremmas and the like - to keep watch of the flocks and deter wolves / give an alarm. 

Whether a wolf pack would think a ranging suckler herd was a fair target, though... Our cows form a protective circle around the calves and chase dogs away, rather than run off which would allow dogs to pick off a weaker target.  Whether that tactic would work with a well-organised wolf pack, I don't know.