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Author Topic: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?  (Read 18028 times)

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2013, 04:11:55 pm »
18% protien along with up to 4% calcuim would be far to much to feed to say a bantam in a moult and not laying. The calcium would over load her liver and kidneys and eventually kill her.

As it would a larger bird, i don't understand the argument there.

I would like to think no one is feeding a layers ration to non laying and/or moulting birds.

That is poor husbandry, not a problem with the ration.

The differing breed sizes make no difference, a chicken is a chicken is a chicken.

whether it is a bantam or a large fowl,  the only difference between the breeds is the quantity required.

Yes a large bird will obviously eat more than a bantam but any chicken still gets 18%  protein from a layers ration whether it eats 1oz, 1lb or 1 ton of feed.

Whatever amount is consumed the bird receives the balanced diet.

its all about percentage, the quantity is irrelevant.

There are no longer hormones, growth promoters etc added to poultry feed, that was all stopped a long time ago, feed companies of today don't put stuff in and don't tell you about it.

and as for giving birds a "Natural" diet, there is nothing unnatural in formulated poultry feed..

In fact here is the list of ingredients in my layers food.

Composition: Wheat, Dehulled Soya Bean Meal (sourced from traceable non-GM material), Limestone Flour, Extracted Sunflower Meal, Distiller's Wheat Grains, Maize, Lucerne Meal, Full Fat Linseed, Dicalcium Phosphate, Rape Oil, Salt, Mannan Oligosaccharides, Seaweed, Nettle, Marigold Flowers, Clivers, Blackcurrant, Kale, Spinach, Beetroot, Rosemary, Rosehip, Pomegranate, Carrot, Tomato

There are no E numbers, strange compounds or chemicals in there.

There are admittedly a couple of them not instantly recognisable..

Dicalcium Phosphate = Calcium

Mannan Oligosaccharides although sounding pretty horrendous is just a sugar...

Now if i said I were feeding all these ingredients individually to my chickens I suspect everyone would be singing my praises about providing such a varied and nutritious diet to my birds.

so why the negativity about feeding them mixed together as a pellet??

p.s. Castle Farm

Do you know exactly whats in your grain? do you grow your own feed? or are you using the same wheat etc as is being used by the feed mills which has been subjected to the same pesticides etc?

*********************

I'm adding this part in at a later date as it came up in another thread and I forgot about it on this one!.

Calcium and phosphorous levels in the diet are pretty critical in laying birds, formulated feeds can control these very closely whereas they cannot be regulated by the birds themselves when free ranging and using oyster shell etc.

Over feeding calcium and phosphorus or feeding them in unbalanced amounts can do just as much harm to the bird as underfeeding and can in serious cases cause shell, bone and kidney problems.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 04:08:13 pm by Clansman »

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2013, 04:40:47 pm »
Izzy is looking for ingredients to add to a grain only diet so i'd have to go with previous suggestions, greens, fruit,...

Don't think fruit has much protein in it.

I'm surprised how many 'small' ingredients are in your layers Clansman. Its nice to see the list, thanks for posting the list.

"Seaweed, Nettle, Marigold Flowers, Clivers, Blackcurrant, Kale, Spinach, Beetroot, Rosemary, Rosehip, Pomegranate, Carrot, Tomato"

A friend of a friend has commercial layers. On the advise of some rep/researcher they altered the ration by a tiny % here and there, and noticibly changed the productivity of the birds! I have no doubt that these things are carefully calculated and researched. And agree that with the amount of foraging free range birds can do, it would be impossible to even adjust their diet to that degree... maybe they're already on 25% protein for all we know  ;D

I read in John Seymores' book his suggested grain mix for fattening cockerals on, but then recommend that if free food was available, the smallholder would want to use that and said (I think) boiled potatoes and barley worked for him!


Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2013, 05:07:02 pm »
maybe they're already on 25% protein for all we know  ;D

They could well be and possibly even higher but then that would be more than they actually need, meaning something else is lacking.

They will given the chance balance out their own diets pretty well, they know what they need but its a very inefficient  way of doing it.

However if the food they are picking up is free then thats not as much of an issue.

p.s.

It doesn't state the percentage of each ingredient though, it might well be 1 carrot per ten tonnes  ;D
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 05:18:39 pm by Clansman »

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2013, 05:15:40 pm »
Yeah, but it sounds nice.

JulieWall

  • Joined Aug 2013
  • Cornhill, Banff
    • The Roundhouse
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2013, 05:41:06 pm »
I think I already mentioned in some other thread that we have grown Siberian pea trees to plant for our hens to forage from, but it seems quite relevant to the topic so repeating it ;) These shrubs grow very tall and are self seeders, so not something you'd want in the wrong place, but they will produce an awesome amount of peas for our poultry once established and the birds will be able to help themselves. It might be worth considering as a protein boost for your birds too.
Permaculture and smallholding, perfect partners
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Castle Farm

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Hereford/Powys Border. near Hay-on-Wye
    • castlefarmeggs
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2013, 07:18:51 pm »
All the wheat and barley is grown about 1 mile from where I live and I buy it off farm.

The Cut maize is from our local farmers co-op here in Herefordshire.

Have you ever tried a grain only diet Clansman ?
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Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2013, 09:13:26 am »
Yep, when I first started keeping poultry I fed them on grain then moved on to formulated feeds.

Although I feed pellets i do also give them small amounts of wheat and barley etc as a scatter feed to keep them busy.

ladyK

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Conwy Valley
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2013, 09:31:27 am »
Just to clarify - I totally agree that different situations will call for different ways of feeding, and they can all be well justified as every one keeps different birds/animals in different situations and for different reasons.
(There is an interesting thread on here about different ways of feeding/keeping sheep at the moment too.)

What gets me is the notion that one should be wary or fearful or be doing a bad/wrong thing to choose feeding their animals natural non-processed feed.
"If one way is better than another, it is the way of nature." (Aristotle)

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2013, 10:43:09 am »
What gets me is the notion that one should be wary or fearful or be doing a bad/wrong thing to choose feeding their animals natural non-processed feed.

I never said its bad or wrong to feed grain, it's not, many people do it and many people have great success doing so.

But it will be harder to provide them a balanced diet when doing so.

They don't need a balanced diet, they will live, breed, lay and grow quite happily on a grain diet but they will not do those things quite as well as they would on a balanced diet.

The ingredients of pellets ARE all natural foodstuffs, look at the ingredients of my pellets.

All the feed companies do is to crush them up and make it into pellets.

They are using the SAME grain you are using.

What gets me is the notion that chicken pellets are being made by mad scientists out of radioactive ingredients and toxic waste! :)

Castle Farm

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Hereford/Powys Border. near Hay-on-Wye
    • castlefarmeggs
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2013, 11:45:35 am »
I wonder why there is such a big market for tonics, poultry spices and all the other 'must have feed suppliments' advertized in poultry magazines if pellets are a compleate feed.

The most scary is the old dear on Beryls freindly bacteria :D
Traditional Utility Breed Hatching Eggs sent next day delivery. Pure bred Llyen Sheep.
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Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2013, 12:06:13 pm »
Because people buy them  ;D

Just like anti-ageing and anti-wrinkle creams, baldness cures and the good old penis enlargement aids  :roflanim:

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2013, 07:51:22 pm »
18% protien along

I would like to think no one is feeding a layers ration to non laying and/or moulting birds.

That is poor husbandry, not a problem with the ration.


oh dear. i did feed layers pellets all year to my hens and they were poor layers - so yes, i did feed them to non-layers. they should have been laying though. what is wrong with this please? and what should i have fed them?

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2013, 08:37:45 pm »
Feeding a layers ration to non laying birds could cause kidney damage due to the high levels of calcium and phosphorus in the feed

It's a bit like feeding a normal person an Olympic athletes diet

It won't do any harm short term, I'm quite sure it's common practice but its not ideal for them.

If they are moulting they still need a high protein diet to replace the feathers so I usually feed them a pullet grower ration during the moult

Castle Farm

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Hereford/Powys Border. near Hay-on-Wye
    • castlefarmeggs
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2013, 09:59:44 pm »
So you have a few hens and one or two start moulting and your feeding layer pellets, which is not ideal and could cause kidney and liver damage.

Do you remove the moulting birds and go out and buy a bag of growers pellets to feed them on or feed the whole lot a mixed grain diet that's not going to kill or cause them any problems, except perhaps you lose a few eggs which your going to anyway if they are going into a moult.
Traditional Utility Breed Hatching Eggs sent next day delivery. Pure bred Llyen Sheep.
www.castlefarmeggs.co.uk  http://www.facebook.com/pages/Utility-Poultry-Keepers/231571570247281

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: How do you boost the 10% protein of poultry grain to 18% ish?
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2013, 10:17:03 pm »
I feed them all the growers ration and feed oyster shell separately, the laying birds will take what they need.

Feeding them a grain diet will mean their protein intake is reduced meaning it will take them longer to get through the moult, feathers are around 85% protein.

 

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