[Pundyburn Lynn]

I wonder if anyone might have some advice or experience they could share?
We’ve been priced out of the housing market and have been renting on farm estates for around ten years, and pottering with self-sufficiency.  Along with everyone else, we’d love to have a place of our own with some land.  We could probably afford some agricultural land and would happily live in a small, cheap straw-bale or shipping-container house, but planning permission would be an issue. 
One route open to us is smallholding for a few years on a slightly larger scale, ie more than 12½ acres/5 hectares, to demonstrate our viability and commitment to agriculture to the planning department.  But we have to demonstrate that for 1 year out of 3 we can earn the equivalent of minimum wage from all of our smallholding activities – roughly £12,000 per annum. 
We’ve kept poultry before and grown enough fruit and veg for ourselves, but nothing bigger.  My partner has a solid background in business and we’re fairly confident we could manage the work, but just don’t know where to start – does anyone know of good sources of specific information from which to prepare a business plan (with projected profit and loss)?  Or do you have an example that you would be willing to share?
Or can you advise which livestock/veg/agricultural activity would result in the most predictable profit, or what’s not worth bothering with?  Are there subsidiary activities that can bump up the profitability, like open days or petting zoos, or does the public liability prohibit these kinds of things? 
The plan is to build up the business over a 3 year period and then probably downscale once more, unless we’re having a great time!  Any guidance gratefully received!
Lynn

[john and helen]

the only way we could find , was to buy a barn that had PP on it, cheaper than buying a up and running house, a Static will only cost you a couple of grand, but you will have more time, to complete your task

most mortgage lenders will not lend against a barn purchases, but will lend the money to do it up

one little idea that i will try is the xmas package, 1 tree, 1 turkey, and all the veg for xmas day..I have a few other ideas, but i need to do more research before i take them serious

[shygirl]

there are loads of  great business ideas but you really have to find a good profit margin. its so difficult to have a net profit at the end of the day. goodluck, im looking forward to following this thread.

[colliewobbles]

We have just done a 5 year business plan with full financial projections for a county tenanted farm - in fact our interview was this morning!!!

We have put together a plan which is for 'Care Farming' which potentially provides a good source of income.  Have a look at their website www.carefarminguk.org/.  Our plan is centred on providing placements for students 14-19 at risk of permanent exclusion.  If it's something that you think might be possible for you let me know and I will ping you over an example of our finance illustration.

Donna

[Pundyburn Lynn]

Hi Donna,
 
I've just had a look at the website - very interesting indeed!  We have been foster carers for some time and the transition to care farming looks manageable.
 
If you had any further information I'd be very keen to have a look - would that be okay?  I don't know if it's possible to PM privately instead of publicly on the forum?  I'll finish the post and then check!
 
Thanks for taking the time to respond,
Lynn

[colliewobbles]

Hi Donna,
 
I've just had a look at the website - very interesting indeed!  We have been foster carers for some time and the transition to care farming looks manageable.
 
If you had any further information I'd be very keen to have a look - would that be okay?  I don't know if it's possible to PM privately instead of publicly on the forum?  I'll finish the post and then check!
 
Thanks for taking the time to respond,
Lynn

Have just replied to your email x

[Stellan Vert]

Hi Lynn

I assume you have a copy of/read the book field to farm

SV.

[Pundyburn Lynn]

Hmmm.  It's very pricey with mixed reviews.  Would you recommend it?

[ShaunP]

I would also suggest Field to Farm, it will open your eyes as to how hard it is to actually make the money required. there is also a forum a website that as a book owner will open up plenty of threads on peoples planning experience. The book is not really full of money making ideas but certainly shows the planning route on how it can be done. It might save you an awful lot of money on buying the wrong plot!!!

From what I have seen and heard the important thing is to have a plot that has good road frontage so you are able to retail direct to the public. I have a smallholding on a very quiet small lane and would find it hard to achieve the traffic you would require. Although I am hoping to make a success of selling Xmas trees this year that is the major route I have taken since reading the book.

[ferretkeeper]

I would also recommend F2F - although the book could do with updating with regard to real figures it is still valid and sets out a way to get where you're going by exploiting certain loopholes in the various laws. There is a website with the book and a forum  (which I used to moderate) - the really good contributors don't seem to post much now but the archive was invaluable, I went through the whole lot when we were thinking of going down that route...

Can you get the book second hand?

Here in Wales there have been cases of people being allowed to build very sustainable houses or live/work type places in open countryside, eg Lammas thus avoiding a lot of the F2F hassle.

On a more recent note I have been referred to a local company who have helped me produce a business plan and lots of forecast figures, which frankly I could never have done on my own, even though I knew the numbers  - they put the cash-flow/ P&L etc together for me. They charge a small fortune but I got 80% funding through Farming Connect, (Welsh Government). They can do feasibility studies, work through ideas before you even commit to buying an animal or piece of land, well worth it IMO, you could spend a lot of money chasing the wrong ideas...

Worth looking into if you're in Wales or search out the equivalent where you live.

Oh and have a look at this for big ideas on small plots: http://ecologicalland.coop/projects-small-successful

Good luck!

[langfauld easycare]

have a look at this  www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/homeless-farmer-awaits-his-fate.2379516
was hard going but it can be done 

[AndynJ]

Google chapter 7 its everything you need, I'm rather anal about Chapter 7 (chapter 7 is the chapter in planning law that relates to AOC's)
Just a few points if you purchase said land and apply for static van first planning will want to see your business plan, (some companies charge £10k to write your plan) so it therefore needs to be very in depth they will also require you to demonstrate that your serious therefore install electricity suitable for farming £25k ish put up a barn £5-£25k, install water £2-8K then when you do get planning for static for a 3 - 4 year period your off ready to earn your 12k that done you can then go back and request permanent planning it will have a agricultural occupancy condition attached to it and also if you have only earnt 12k they will only allow you to put a property on the land suitable for someone whom earns that level of income therefore a very modest home which would fall into class A council tax, below 90 sq metres. hope this helps, I have 2 friends currently following this path they have spent over £200k to date and live in a £500 caravan though they will get it, oh if you stop working and earning they can evict you from the land and they are doing it a lot nowadays.
Just a thought, we bought a small caravan site (1/2 mile from the sea) in a tourist area, 4 acres ish with a barn with planning permission and an acre ish, fantastic views for less than £250k it already had an income (liveable) we are on a main road with a layby as part of our drive, we sell out of eggs, veg every day within an hour of putting them at the gate.
We live in 2 statics which cost us £1500 for the pair.

[Stellan Vert]

Hi 

In relation to chapter 7, dont forget Simon Fairlie, he lived at Tinkers Bubble, has advised the Government and other bodies on housing (rural, affordable) (he walks the walk).

SV

[Bumblebear]

We have just done a 5 year business plan with full financial projections for a county tenanted farm - in fact our interview was this morning!!!

We have put together a plan which is for 'Care Farming' which potentially provides a good source of income.  Have a look at their website www.carefarminguk.org/.  Our plan is centred on providing placements for students 14-19 at risk of permanent exclusion.  If it's something that you think might be possible for you let me know and I will ping you over an example of our finance illustration.

Donna

Spookily enough our business works with this group in Thetford zoneforlearning.co.uk

[Pundyburn Lynn]

Thanks to all of you for imparting much researched information!  I also received a book in the post today - particular thanks to the sender!


Lynn xx