[kevkev57]

Now this is a whole big subject. I wanted to open up a discussion as to where you all are now, regarding ' self sufficiency '

Do you want it ? Is it actually achievable ? What are you doing to get there ?

Here are my thoughts.

Firstly I do not think 100% self sufficency is achievable, at least not for me.  Life always boils down to some kind of compromise, does it not. If I can be happy in my attempts to consume less, spend less, and recycle more, then that is good enough for me. I would have reached my own level of incompetence so to speak.

Once I feel that I can do no more unless I become some kind of zealot, then I will stay at that level.

Being self sufficient for me is having the ability to rely as least as possible on the state as well as being self sufficent in food and heating.  I have come to detest modern life and all its stupidity so much that I sometimes worry myself.

Of course this ' mend and make do ' culture is hardly new, although it is being marketed in some quarters as the new big deal. Times of war and economic depression always bring the best out of a human. I feel that people are being brought together here and there, to share and assist each other. That has to be a good thing.

So , your thoughts please !


Kevin

[Rosemary]

We're not aiming to be self sufficient either - unless we can grow chocolate and red wine, it's simply not achievable.

Like you we want to be less reliant on the "big boys" - government, retailers etc - and help to reduce our impact on the planet.

Since we've decided to stay here for the foreseeable, we're looking at greening our electricity supply, space and water heating. We also need to look at rainwater collection and use. We've been holding off because I had itchy feet for a while.

[Tullywood Farm]

We are self sufficient in Water and Heating which is a great start.

Electricity is next - hopefully a man made water wheel first, then maybe a couple of windmills to service only our own supply, do not want to be attached to the grid - the idea is to be free from it!

I do make my own red wine, biscuits, bread, grow herbs and salad, but buy potatoes as they are so cheap at the moment, so whats the point in doing half an acre - I have four barrels of new potatoes which will be ready for harvest at Christmas 

We have a lot of fruit - but not enough - want to build a greenhouse bigger than my 18 x 7 Oasis which is great, but want to have higher roof for fruit.  Want Citrus, berries and cherries from Spain - 
Don't like the idea of polytunnels - polythene anything gives me shudders after finding out about plastic water and juice bottles, cling film and other carcenogenic forming plastics - don't want to grow my food under it at all.

Joe built me a gazebo with plastic corrugated sheeting as a roof, and I think we could modify the idea and create another one as a greenhouse in the future.

WE have built our own house - I mean from nails, planks and slates etc, not from a kit or by hiring workers - we did it all ourselves - Joe is very good with his hands and has done the electrics, plumbing, timberworks, roofing, and everything, it took us three months to build the shell, and we have done the rest when the money is available.

Last night we made the finishing touches to the kitchen - will try to post a picture later.

We have triple insulated floor - walls and ceilings, even internal walls and we have just purchased a little Range for our new kitchen - solid fuel hot water and seven radiators, small oven ideal for bread and a ring for casseroles or heating water - for less than most people pay out for a fill of their central heating oil.

This will give us bath water, heat from radiators, a small oven for our beloved home made bread, and free solid fuel heating forthe next 10 years at least - thats the guarantee on the stove, and we definitly have the timber!

We have achieved a lot but need to do a lot more.  Thats why we are enjoying this site and talking to you all learning and swapping ideas all the time - its great, plus we can play games and solve all the worlds problems too - now what more could we ask for 

Julie

[Roxy]

I think we could all learn from people who lived before us - my Mum and Uncles used to tell me all about how they lived in the "lean war years".  My granny did all her own baking, they had a little milk herd, keeping some milk back for the house, sheep and a pig for meat, they grew their own fruit and veg, and my Uncle had his own bees (and was allowed a sugar ration for them in the war). The farm work was all done by horses and horse drawn machinery ......they grew wheat, etc. T Clothes were made at home, and hand me downs for the kids.There were 5 of them, so times would be hard.  It must have been hard work, but in a way, thats all they knew. It was the norm to grow their own food.

As for me, I have always wanted to be self sufficient. I do enjoy growing my own fruit and veg, have solid fuel fires with free wood from the fields, and would love to work a way of getting water from the river at the bottom of the fields for electricity.  I have been down to look at a scheme nearby from the same river, and its generating enough power for a few houses.

At the moment there is not much chance of us being fully self sufficient.  We have a massive mortgage on the farm, and it needs a lot of work to make it liveable in.  So my partner works full time, and me part time.  I also have a lot of native ponies, which we show and carriage drive.  Obviously these are not cheap to run, but its something I enjoy, and I think its better for me than spending the money on cigarettes and being in the pub every night.

[rustyme]

Hello Kevin,
           self sufficiency is really an impossibility. Degrees of it are however possible. I have met many people who have stated categorically that they were self sufficient , some have worn glasses , so I asked did you make them ? some had false teeth , same question ? most wore watches , so i asked did you make it ?  even some who were very self sufficient wore clothes that they didn't make ie , normal shoes , trousers , shirts etc etc . Some also bought food such as salt , pepper , oils , mustard and so on . So self sufficiency is a myth and unattainable on the whole . My type of self sufficiency is to reduce my so called foot print on the planet as much as possible , yet still live in the modern world , to an extent !!!
 I am prepared to go without many things that most people wouldn't dream of being without , and over time will go without even more . I to am so fed up with the strange way our lifestyle in this modern world has gone , that I want a simpler easier way of living . Slowly I am getting there , some things are a conscious decision to change , others are by arrived at by action ie , do this and it changes that  !!! I am getting nearer the point where I will be in my timber framed house with wattle and daub infill panels , thatched roof , all from the land or nearby , and with windows from old glazing and all hinges etc made from recycled metal . A more or less free house , that along with free food for me and any animals and free clothing , grown or reared on site , free heating , all supplied onsite or once again nearby, ie I can grow willow on loads of different waste areas that belong to other people , the same with small amounts of wheat , or norfolk reed for thatch etc.
I  obtain as much scrap metal from cars and the like , as I want or need , and this metal can supply all my needs for making all things metal.  Wood I can get from my land and others close by , to make all my own furniture and wagons , carts etc .  I have done all the things I intend to do  before,  so none are new really . All in all I am pretty close to self sufficiency but there are still things I will want such as a pc or lights or wellies . Oh and DIY dentistry is NOT on my to do list ....


cheers

Russ

[Rosemary]

I feel quite depressed now

[doganjo]

I think self sufficiency depends largely on what people are willing to go without.  In the war years it was forced on people - goods and food were just not available, nor was the money - but their expectations were less so it was more bearable.  Self sufficiency is a fashion just now - we have the money to make our homes habitable without leaks from the weather, or keep unwanted guests out.  We can make use of modern technology (which has been paid for, make no mistake), modern equipment, modern knowledge on medicines, plant treatments, even water treatments.  One can say one wants to be self sufficient but in real terms no-one ever can be truly self sufficient ever again because the knowledge has been already paid for.  What we can do is live comfortably within our own expectations using as few of the remaining resources as we can.  No one can expect more or less than that. We will never again be 'self-sufficient'  We are all 'world sufficient'.

[Tullywood Farm]

Russ, you surprise me regarding the dentist

My Gran used to tell me of when they used to tie fishing line around your tooth, hold you down, tie the other end to a door knob, and slam the door to pull out the tooth - 

I believed her,  but I was onlt ten at the time 

- hate the dentist- but would hate to have to do it myself

Julie

[rustyme]

lol...sorry Rosemary , I can't think how to jazz it up and make it sound interesting !!!  It is just how I do things ... Not everyones cup of tea I know , but it's mine ...


Cheers


Russ

[sheila]

when do any of you find time to be happy?

[rustyme]

Growing and eating my own food makes me happy !! as does getting an old horse shoe and making a knife from it !!or seeing a new crop of wheat or grass growing , or seeing my horses running and playing about the field , or walking my dogs , or turning willow I planted as cuttings, into charcoal  in a charcoal burner I made out of a scrap oil drum !! or making a willow basket from my own willow, or collecting my own honey from my own bees , or just sitting on my land watching the river flow through , or listening to the birds sing on a sunny morning (ok not many of those at the moment  ) but the list goes on . Am I happy ? yes , I do what I want when I want , and there is  no one to tell me otherwise, happy as the proverbial pig in  **it !!!


cheers

Russ

[Tullywood Farm]

For anyone reading the third response I made here - the photos are under a new topic - building our own home from planks and nails

Julie

[Womble]

I rather like the idea of being self-sufficientish (for anyone who's new to this term, have a look at www.selfsufficientish.com).

Basically you grown / make / recycle what you can, and buy or barter for what you can't. True self sufficiency is perhaps a goal too far, but look at it as a continuum, and you'd be amazed what you can come up with!

[Crofter]

As Russ said, true self-sufficiency is not really possible but you start somewhere and keep doing more of it yourself until you are happy with the result or run out of time!
We Grow most of our own veg for 10 or 11 months of the year but are prepared to buy or barter some in the hungry gap.  We grow our own soft fruit but I doubt if we'll ever grow enough top fruit on the Isle of Lewis!
We have our own eggs, milk, cheese, beef, pork, bacon, mutton and chicken but we rely on bought in food for the stock until we are able to produce more of it ourselves.  That is one of the next goals along with a composting toilet, wind turbine (probably home made) and rain water storage to water stock automatically.

We have a mortgage and run a B&B from home to pay for it.  We serve mostly home made food to guests where this is legal and the guests love it.  One common comment is that they feel like they have experienced the "good life" a bit for themselves.
Ther are always trade offs, can we justify the expense and work of a cow for a limited return, do we need cows and goats together, is it worth feeding a sow all year to have access to piglets when we want them.  You get the picture.
We are, though, exceedingly happy doing all this and can't imagine anything we'd rather be doing.

Cheers


Dave

[Rosemary]

I was thinking about this thread this morning and actually, Annie has said pretty much what I was thinking. The "self" in self-sufficiency bothers me - 'cos it's also in selfish. Whether we like it or not, we're all part of the human race and we should all be trying to help each other, not cutting ourselves off and setting ourselves apart.