[fionadeans]

I am investigating the potential of the Bowmont breed, to be developed into a sustainable source of Scottish wool to be used within the Textile Industry.

A Bowmont is a Shetland x Saxon Merino and can be found dotted around Scotland and England. Its fleece is very fine at 16-18microns and would therefore be a possible future source of high quality Scottish wool.

If there were a Wool poole established that offered you a premium for your Bowmont wool, Would this temp you into breeding Bowmonts? Why - why not?

What are your Reservations?

I look forward to your replies!!

[Fleecewife]

I agree that the Bowmont fleece is gorgeous.   I wouldn't keep them though as I no longer have my fleece flock and now concentrate on pure primitives, including Shetlands but not crosses.
 
I know one lady who decided a few years ago now to support the Bowmont project.  She invested in some wonderful sheep with fleece to die for, but she couldn't sell her stock as there simply was no demand.
 
I think any group offering a premium for Bowmont fleece would need to offer some cast iron guarantees for breeders to take the risk again.
 
The idea behind the project is wonderful but not for me.

[Blinkers]

Never heard of it before so had to a Google to read more.  Fascinating.  Fleecewife - why couldn't your friend sell the stock?    Do they have a poor carcase?   Are they difficult to keep?   Interested to know more. 

[Rosemary]

Couple of folk in our local RBST group have them.

[Fleecewife]

Never heard of it before so had to a Google to read more.  Fascinating.  Fleecewife - why couldn't your friend sell the stock?    Do they have a poor carcase?   Are they difficult to keep?   Interested to know more. 

Just someone I've met but there simply was no-one wanting to buy them at the price she wanted (maybe that was it - too expensive).  They are fine animals with a lovely crimpy fine fleece, but hardy from the Shetland input.
 
Prob Rosemary could answer better than me as she will know this lady too....?

[shygirl]

Just someone I've met but there simply was no-one wanting to buy them at the price she wanted (maybe that was it - too expensive).
[/quote]

maybe because no ones heard of them, we had problems selling some breeds of really rare chickens as i think no-one knew what they were.

[Anke]

I have had some and sold them on, because I did not find them particularly well suited to our climate and they had endless foot problems on our soil. Also quite dim and a nightmare to clip... I crossed them with my white Shetland tup, but the only female lamb I got was not very nice (although she did have nice fleece). I just found them too much hassle I am afraid. No shearer would touch them either, so had to hand-shear, and that was difficult as they have the same wrinkly neck as Merinos...
 
I am still experimenting, but have switched to cross-breeding Gotlands with Shetlands. Actually prefer the Gotland type wool/fleece to the merino type one. (and coloured Shetland ones at that)
 
A final point, there are millions of merinos in climates better suited to them, so (IMO) not much point trying to develop an really fine wool sheep in a wet climate - my Bowmonts were growing green algae (or something like that) on their backs in a wet winter...

[clydesdaleclopper]

I am still experimenting, but have switched to cross-breeding Gotlands with Shetlands. Actually prefer the Gotland type wool/fleece to the merino type one. (and coloured Shetland ones at that)

A lovely cross - not that I'm biased or anything as that is what my girls are 

[zarzar]

i like my shetland portland crosses they got a good carcass weight to some grow the longer portland wool and others the shorter shetland one.

[Ina]

I have had some and sold them on, because I did not find them particularly well suited to our climate and they had endless foot problems on our soil. Also quite dim and a nightmare to clip... I crossed them with my white Shetland tup, but the only female lamb I got was not very nice (although she did have nice fleece). I just found them too much hassle I am afraid. No shearer would touch them either, so had to hand-shear, and that was difficult as they have the same wrinkly neck as Merinos...

I can only agree with Anke. The breed was developed to try and get the hardiness of the Shetlands into the fineness of the Merino wool. Well, the wool bit worked - the rest didn't. Bad at mothering, you have to lamb indoors, shearing just as difficult as Merinos, and all the rest of the problems of a breed that's not really suited to the climate. Possibly down south, where it's a bit drier... (If it is anywhere these days!)

[Fleecewife]

That's interesting to hear Ina and Anke.  I had understood them to have got some of the hardiness of the Shetlands, but clearly not.   
 
That was the MackauleyInstitute was it which developed the cross?  Is it still involved in this latest project Fiona?

[Anke]

That's interesting to hear Ina and Anke.  I had understood them to have got some of the hardiness of the Shetlands, but clearly not.   
 
That was the MackauleyInstitute was it which developed the cross?  Is it still involved in this latest project Fiona?

Although they lambed themselves latching on was a drawn-out affair, due to the heavy fleece at that time if year, and it needed clearing... Also they seemed to loose their lambs all the time, and then stood in the field bleating... maybe I just got the "bottom end of class"... (My shetlands don't loose their lambs really ever...)
 
I thought the Macauley Institute left their farm site and the whole flock of Bowmonts was dispersed throughout Britain?
 
 

[Ina]

I thought the Macauley Institute left their farm site and the whole flock of Bowmonts was dispersed throughout Britain?

That's more or less what happened. The woman who bought most of them was quoted by the BBC that "she rescued laboratory animals", which was a load of crap. They were just a breeding flock that was sold off, because the institute (now the James Hutton Institute) decided to go out of fine fibre research (they were also working with cashmere goats back then) - they realised it'll never really take off in Scotland due to the climate. I did a lambing with them 10 years ago, and remember it well!

[fionadeans]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Very interesting thoughts as I have only spoken to Bowmont breeders so have only heard positive things. Good to hear both sides.
I know the Macaulay Institute folded the scheme 30 years ago where the sheep were all dispersed across Britain. Since it closed there has been no such Fine Wool Project investigated since. Devon Fine Fibres has alot now by using the Macaulay's Bowmonts whos fleeces go straight to Finisterre Clothing brand, however there are some breeders in Aberdeen/fife/Borders - one of which won last years RHS.

I just think that with the marketing the Campaign for Wool is doing and with "Responsible sourcing" of raw materials being at the back of most clothing marketing strategies, I think there is more of market today than there was 30 years ago. e.g Holland and Sherry has snapped up the one Saxon Merino flock in Britain and selling it for a very high premium.

Thanks again!
Fiona 

[Ina]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Very interesting thoughts as I have only spoken to Bowmont breeders so have only heard positive things. Good to hear both sides.
I know the Macaulay Institute folded the scheme 30 years ago where the sheep were all dispersed across Britain.

Sorry, that's wrong, too. I lambed them 10 years ago for the Macaulay...