[Dans]

Hi all 

Did a search but didn't see this come up anywhere.

Does anyone have a smallholding in a less favoured area?

Would anyone advise against them for smallholding?

I've seen a couple of properties listed as being in a less favoured area but apart from potential payments (Which I don't think we'd get due to the land area being too small) I can't see much else on how they affect usage.

I would imagine that you would need a larger area to support grazing than you would in an area with better pasture but is there anything else?

Thanks

Dans

[MAK]

Not sure this answers your question but I would check out the climate for the area. There are a few eb sites that give charts of min,max and mean temperature, windspeed and precipitaion for the postcode/country. Worth using 

[BlackBoab]

The majority of Scotland is classified as LFA.If the present owner is claiming it could be transfered when you buy the land(you could make it a condition of purchase).You can access all the payment details that are paid to claiments  (they are listed by area then by value) there was one in west lothian that was claiming about£25 but they are reduced every year until they are phased out (then replaced with some other idea)

Anyway just because it is classified as LFA does not mean it cant grow crops that is when your farming skills come into play
regards bb

[jaykay]

I have a smallholding in a severely disadvantaged area in Cumbria.

It has high rainfall, poor soil, bad drainage so loads of rushes and is cold, wet and windy. The house is at 1000ft and the land goes up from there. It does have great views and lots of midges  It's fairly cheap to buy a smallholding here, compared with more favourable places.

The winters are long and the rain, mud and midges can get quite depressing - they stop you sitting out often and make working outside unpleasant. Then again, it's isolated, quiet and on a nice day, there's no place in the world I'd rather be.

There's no way I could grow much, if anything, in the way of crops or veg - either too wet, too cold, or too short a growing season - I can't get tomatoes to ripen in an unheated greenhouse for example, the frosts hit before they go red and I've given my bees to my Dad who lives at a lower altitude - I couldn't get colonies through the wet and snowy -18C winters, however much I fed them.

Livestock is fine, I have Shetland sheep, Old English goats (they had to be a hardy breed), plus ducks, hens and geese.

So it depends what you want to do. But if plants come into your scheme of things, I suspect it wouldn't work.

[Factotum]

Our place is in a LFA - designated fragile.

We're at about 230m, and our land rises to about 260m - the soil is quite thin and very acid - we're next to a peaty grouse moor. It's windy.

Our grass grows fine - we can grow enough hay on some of our fields to keep our Shetland cattle herd in feed over the winter - we need to feed them for just over 6 months of the year.

The veg patch is about 1/3 acre; Veg  - we can grow potatoes, peas, carrots, broad beans and neeps outside - also herbs such rosemary, parsley, chives and mint. More delicate veg - runner beans, french beans, some brassicas and salads we grow inside a polytunnel. Toms grow in there too with courgettes, squash and cues and more delicate herbs such as marjoram and coriander.

Fruit - apples, plums, gages, gooseberries and cherries are OK outside and raspberries are fine. We did try strawberries - but the pigs broke in and ate all the plants, along with all the Jerusalem Artichokes...

We couldn't grow cereals here - though a farmer a mile or so away and further down, grows barley for the Maltings,

The chickens don't care about the LFA, and the Shetland cattle will thrive on poor quality grazing without any concentrates - so they are well suited to our location and our way of farming. We've kept sheep here too - they're only interested in the next blade of grass.

It depends what you want to grow/keep - but just because a holding is in a LFA, doesn't mean you can't grow food successfully. The soil may need treating - ours is very acid, so that need correction for some things - but that's not difficult.

Don't let a LFA designation put you off.


Sue

[oor wullie]

As others have said LFA is a very broad classification and you need to look at each site.  Climate, soil and aspect will all make a huge difference.

I think that many people would be surprised as to what used to be done in some pretty difficult places.  My croft is at 280m, north facing and in the North of Scotland.  I have fields that were used to grow turnips 25 years ago and had cerials on them 50 years ago.  Nowadays if you looked at them you would not think it was possible.  200 years ago cerials were grown in lots of really high, exposed parts of the highlands (although crop failure and famine were a constant threat) . 

That being said we had snow in each of the first 3 weeks of may this year so you have to be careful what type of plants you grow.  Things that are not hardy will not survive.

The LFA means an extra 10% on grants which helps.

[SallyintNorth]

I won't comment on north of the border, but in England any payments tend to be less, and the only way to 'make money' from the Severely Disadvantaged status is to go in for the highly restrictive Uplands Entry Level Scheme. 

Otherwise I echo pretty much everything jaykay has said.  We're not so high or exposed as her spot, but we can't, in these wet years, grow much of anything except grass.  Our neighbours have a polytunnel and grow salad things in it successfully - but you need a sheltered spot.  Not least in terms of the winds, which are legendary.

As well as needing more acreage per "livestock unit", you also need to consider additional requirements for buildings. You probably won't be able to outwinter much if anything bar sheep, and will need plenty of forage to feed them for 6 months, which you'll need to store, and have a practical means of feeding in all weathers...

Yes it's cheaper per acre, but...

On the other hand, you can sell the picnic table and the barbecue - you won't be needing them!   

[fiestyredhead331]

I take great exception as being classed as  a LFA 

with a bit of effort and planning most anywhere will work, I have veg crops and livestock, its all about adaptability

[BlackBoab]

You should have tried making a claim 30-40 years ago .If your farm had been a dairy it was a hell of a job to get it reclassified as LFA to get the enhanced level of payments.
regards bb

[smudger]

Our land is at 1000ft on edge of exmoor and we are classified as severely disadvantaged but seem to have it easy compared to jaykay!  We can grow veggies outside (but we are 400 miles further south).


As with all smallholding - or any property - purchases just be clear on what you are buying and spend more time looking at the land and barns than the house!  Access to the property, access to the fields, water, fences/boundary/ gates condition will be more of a consideration and drain on time and finances post purchase.  Grass will be your only crop and you may have to put more fertility / lime into it to get it to grow. Speak to an agent and be clear on what land values are.  20 years ago it was clear - £100/a for moorland (more to do with subsidies); £1000 for grass and £3k for arable. Nowadays who knows! Probably 5x these but varies regionally and premium if land attached to a house.


Forget any agri-payments unless you are buying hundreds if thousands of acres influencing your purchase. We get £1100 through SFP for 7ha but I really wonder if its worth all the paperwork and inspections. We looked at Natural England schemes (ELS/OELS etc), but unless we went organic and got the additional payments for conversion - it wasn't worth it - £30/ha = £210 pa!


As Jaykay intimated - buy somewhere you love and learn how to 'farm' it, accepting you will make a few mistakes / changes of direction along the way.