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Author Topic: static caravan planning laws  (Read 82943 times)

Andrea

  • Joined Oct 2012
  • keyworth nottinghamshire
static caravan planning laws
« on: June 20, 2013, 06:54:46 pm »
Hi I need to put a static caravan on my 6 acre smallholding not to live in. Do I need planning I live in nottinghamshire  under rushcliffe borgho concil who are not helpfull any help please thanks Andrea
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lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2013, 07:13:17 pm »
The critical thing is the use. If its incidental to the house Ie you don't sleep or eat or bathe there, it may well be ok. Also, on a farm, if its used for seasonal accom for an agricultural worker eg for lambing, that's ok as there's a specific exemption for that.  In some places you can have one there temporarily while you renovate a ruin (as we did)


What have the council said? What do you plan to use it for, if not for living in?


NB ours is still here as we still (5 years on) have half the conversion to do, and its the only place we can put the big freezer and the animal related washing machine. That's fine, as we are not using it for living in.

Andrea

  • Joined Oct 2012
  • keyworth nottinghamshire
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 06:49:09 pm »
Hi its not to live in but to make a cupper keep dry and do lambs bottles. We don't have a house on our land we live 5 miles awaythe council say pay and aply for planning thanks Andrea

Tala Orchard

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • North Cornwall
    • Tala Orchard
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 06:57:50 pm »
You would need to apply for PP should you wish to sleep in it overnight, however you may try citing Health and Safety in the work place ie somewhere to go in inclement weather some where to eat and rest and somewhere to go when nature calls. These are wholly acceptable and we know that it is accepted when using a touring caravan.  however it will also depend upon the neighbours if they make a complaint and give the impression you are using it for residential purposes then you will have a fight on you hands.

for health and safety purposes you do not require PP or Building regs unless you intend to install a septic tank then building regs are a definite requirement and also you will need to becarfull as this will constitute developement for which PP is required.

Tala
Pigs are human tooo

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 07:02:01 pm »
If in England, and if the caravan is put there for lambing period only and removed afterwards, then PP isn't required, however !! the council would reasonably challenge why a static caravan would be required rather than a more genuinely mobile and smaller touring caravan. The costs of uplifting a static caravan will lead them to a (reasonable) conclusion that it will not be there just during the lambing season, - and PP is required on a piece of bare land if it's to be there all year round. So they are kind of right because of the fact this isn't land by your house and the need is seasonal but the caravan type quoted isn't consistent with that.

I would forget the static type as unless its in your domestic land round your house, the rights are very restrictive and the council are unlikely to accept that its only going to be there seasonally or is reasonably required to be a static rather than touring, and agree with the council that it would be a small mobile touring caravan (which have cooking and sitting facilities) and the dates that it will be brought to the site and leave it (matching up with the lambing duties). H&S criteria would only justify a tourer anyway, you won't be able to justify all year round caravan need for 5 acres worth of sheep, only seasonal, lack of loo facilities won't be a factor as unless it is 50 miles from the nearest pub, supermarket or public conveniences they can say you can use those like anyone who goes out for a walk or ramble does.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 07:04:53 pm by lachlanandmarcus »

FiB

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Bala, North Wales
    • Facebook
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 08:49:30 pm »
You can have a static in the curtilage (garden) of your house (so not randomly on your land or in your yard)- and that bit is critical - for 'ancillary use' to the house (ie family and friends where they are using the house for meals and bathroom etc.  Those are the 2 key things - Curtilage and Ancilliary use (thogh not necessarily spelt in that way!!!!! :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: .

ferretkeeper

  • Joined May 2013
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Brecon View Farm
    • Facebook
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2013, 04:56:54 pm »
You are allowed to site a caravan on your land for tea breaks, to get out of the rain, change clothes, eat lunch etc etc all under Health and Safety at work. It refers to employees but you need those facilities too.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/workplace.htm

The caravan is incidental to the use for the land and you DO NOT need planning permission. Where else are you to keep a first aid kit and animal medicines/equipment?

Furthermore you are allowed to sleep in the caravan for up to 28 nights for the sheer hell of it AND you are allowed to use it as a stockman's hut and again sleep in it at lambing etc etc. It may also be used by seasonal agricultural and forestry workers. The caravan can remain on the land all the time therefore it can be a static or a tourer, neither are permanent fixtures even if a tourer can be moved more easily, a static is still a mobile home. 

It's not the caravan being there that changes the use of land it's what the caravan is used for and quoting the above will cover you if you're ever challenged. Farmers do get quite a bit of back-up when it comes to animal welfare etc.
Be careful of building things like decking around or laying hardstanding/patio, however practical or attractive, they can cause issues such as making it look like a residence and their degree of permanence.

Unfortunately most councils' POs don't know most of this OR think that you don't know, so by default they tell you to apply for PP and pay them a hefty sum of money!!! You don't even need to tell them you're doing it, so I wouldn't bother with them again.

As you can probably tell I am not a fan of planners!
breconviewfarm.co.uk Rare breed, free range.

FiB

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Bala, North Wales
    • Facebook
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2013, 07:05:03 pm »
You are allowed to site a caravan on your land for tea breaks, to get out of the rain, change clothes, eat lunch etc etc all under Health and Safety at work. It refers to employees but you need those facilities too.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/workplace.htm

The caravan is incidental to the use for the land and you DO NOT need planning permission. Where else are you to keep a first aid kit and animal medicines/equipment?

Furthermore you are allowed to sleep in the caravan for up to 28 nights for the sheer hell of it AND you are allowed to use it as a stockman's hut and again sleep in it at lambing etc etc. It may also be used by seasonal agricultural and forestry workers. The caravan can remain on the land all the time therefore it can be a static or a tourer, neither are permanent fixtures even if a tourer can be moved more easily, a static is still a mobile home. 

It's not the caravan being there that changes the use of land it's what the caravan is used for and quoting the above will cover you if you're ever challenged. Farmers do get quite a bit of back-up when it comes to animal welfare etc.
Be careful of building things like decking around or laying hardstanding/patio, however practical or attractive, they can cause issues such as making it look like a residence and their degree of permanence.

Unfortunately most councils' POs don't know most of this OR think that you don't know, so by default they tell you to apply for PP and pay them a hefty sum of money!!! You don't even need to tell them you're doing it, so I wouldn't bother with them again.

As you can probably tell I am not a fan of planners!
there is a difference between static caravan and caravan tho.... You are right re caravan above - but statics are different and need pp unless in the curtilage of your house :(

ferretkeeper

  • Joined May 2013
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Brecon View Farm
    • Facebook
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2013, 10:40:14 am »
This company has a useful page about caravans, definitions etc and links to the relevant legislation

http://www.joalleisure.com/mobile-home-planning-legislation.html

Therefore statics are not considered differently to touring caravans and do not need PP to site one in your field for the reasons I mentioned before.

If you read to the bottom you can have a monster twin unit caravan and still comply - they've got a bigger footprint than my house! And it also makes reference to what I said about fixing to the ground inferring a permanence.

There's no difference for planning purposes between a touring caravan or a static caravan - it's only called static to differentiate it from one you tow behind your car. They are also known as mobile homes, so that says it all!
breconviewfarm.co.uk Rare breed, free range.

Roxy

  • Joined May 2009
  • Peak District
    • festivalcarriages.co.uk
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 12:27:00 pm »
Know people who have had statics for use when tending their animals, and council got orders to have them removed.  Know of a few who have touring vans at their stables, for brewing up etc, and that seems ok.  But some have been checked to make sure there are no signs of permanent residency!!
 
Statics seem to be viewed as permanent residencies, and the council will probably think thats what you are aiming at, and a tourer would suit the purpose for lambing. I see a tourer every year towed right up the hillside, for the farmer to sleep in while he is checking for lambing ewes out on the moors, but he does move it once lambing is done so I assume he has an arrangement with the council regarding this.

FiB

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Bala, North Wales
    • Facebook
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 02:25:40 pm »
Know people who have had statics for use when tending their animals, and council got orders to have them removed.  Know of a few who have touring vans at their stables, for brewing up etc, and that seems ok.  But some have been checked to make sure there are no signs of permanent residency!!
 
Statics seem to be viewed as permanent residencies, and the council will probably think thats what you are aiming at, and a tourer would suit the purpose for lambing. I see a tourer every year towed right up the hillside, for the farmer to sleep in while he is checking for lambing ewes out on the moors, but he does move it once lambing is done so I assume he has an arrangement with the council regarding this.
That has been our experience too. The link you have put up ferretkeeper is setting out the definitions in relation to the Caravan sites and control of development act, which is different from the 28 day rule on ag land (it may be that you could put a static on your field without anyone bothering - but only for 28 days!!!!).    Between me and my close friends, we have fallen foul of most of them.  She was served a removal order on a static which has been in its place for many years, because it was sited just outside the curtilage.  It was eventually resolved by moving the curtilage boundary, but they would not give planning for holiday let use (which she had been casually doing), only permitted use (ancilliary to house etc etc).  There are good threads on money saving experts forum - and a few real live planners seem active on that site too.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 02:34:53 pm by FiB »

FiB

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Bala, North Wales
    • Facebook
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 02:38:59 pm »
Hi its not to live in but to make a cupper keep dry and do lambs bottles. We don't have a house on our land we live 5 miles awaythe council say pay and aply for planning thanks Andrea

Missed that Sorry Andrea - Id say youd be hard pushed to justify a static if you applied for pp - as Roxy says a small tourer parked up for lambing would do the job...

ferretkeeper

  • Joined May 2013
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Brecon View Farm
    • Facebook
Re: static caravan planning laws
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 02:26:19 pm »
I put that link in because it explained the definition of a caravan, I didn't mean to confuse matters, the 28 day rule for caravans is not what's being discussed here. The fact is that you can have any sort of caravan on your land for the purposes of rest breaks, shelter etc. be it static or touring. I presume Andrea that you already have the static caravan, not that you are going to buy something and choose a static over a tourer?

I was going to buy a plot of land for grazing which had a static caravan on it, the person selling had a letter from the council saying it was ok to be there but that letter wasn't even necessary for the reasons stated already.

So to be told to pay money to apply for planning permission which will almost certainly be refused because they will think you want to live there is misleading and time wasting.

If you know people who have had caravans on land which attached to their house but not within the curtilage of their garden then that's fair do's sort of - I have an old caravan in my yard storing bits and pieces while we work on the garage, but really it shouldn't be there, it should be in the garden.

But in Andrea's case the land has no dwelling on it, that's the difference, it's not ancillary to anything or within the curtilage of anything.
breconviewfarm.co.uk Rare breed, free range.

 

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