Author Topic: How do I deal with docks covering permanent ley? (Read 6528 times)

shropshire_blue · « **on:** May 31, 2013, 01:59:35 pm »

Hi All,

It's a permanent ley on HLS scheme, so I can't really do much with it. The nettles I'm slowly taming with Grazon and a knapsack sprayer, but the docks are everywhere! Would regular topping for the next few years do the job? Or section it off and do a bit at a time spot spraying, although spraying a whole 4 acres with a knapsack might not fit in the definition of spot spraying for HLS??

Thanks,
SB

Dan · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2013, 02:21:01 pm »

Or a little at a time with a rag fork? Cleanest and most reliable way if they aren't yet in seed.

It might seem a lot to do by hand but dividing it up into 1/8 acres is only (!) 32 sessions...

Calvadnack · « **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2013, 02:49:46 pm »

My Shetland sheep have completely cleaned up a paddock that was full of docks. I did another one by hand before I had sheep. Hard work, but I did a little bit at a time every time I walked the dogs.

The farmers around here who cut for silage, just spray off the whole field with glyphosate and re-seed - this is the problem with mono-cultures!

suziequeue · « **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2013, 02:55:00 pm »

I have to say last year I spot sprayed with glyphosate.

Every two weeks I would go out and just do the ones that were showing their heads.

It was very effective and we seem to have much less coming back this year but..... it's early days yet.

Marches Farmer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 31, 2013, 02:58:51 pm »

I use a special Sneeboer weed spade - thin, sharp blade like a straight-sided trowel, with a tang on the top edge for your boot. Just push it in next to the rosette and lever to one side or put a boot on the tang for older plants. Severs the top of the root so it can't regrow. I did 30 a day for a month or so and now, two years on, you'd not find half that number in the whole field (and their cards are marked, too ....)

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2013, 11:30:21 pm »

If you can't get sheep that will eat them, regular and repeated topping will keep them in check, yes. Our problem has been that our ground was too wet for most of the last two years for us to get on and top.

Bramblecot · « **Reply #6 on:** June 07, 2013, 05:58:18 pm »

I had a really weedy paddock and for three summers pulled by hand as many docks as I could manage, preferably just before they seeded, and threw them in a dumpy bag which I dragged round with me. Then I burnt the lot

. Yes, it was hard work - and I was called barmy. The paddock has since been grazed by my sheep (which eat young docks) and the previous owner said it has never been better

(and they are proper farmers). It is heavy,wet clay soil but this is an advantage when pulling docks as you can pull the b**s out completely after rainfall - we cannot get machinery onto it which is why it had been left. It is only 1 acre though - maybe a dock-pulling BBQ

for 4 acres.

wonderwooly · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2013, 11:08:30 pm »

I noted a while back the old folks here always walking about seemingly random areas with a hand scyale, and now I do the same, arrr, if its on the way to do something or look at this or that animal just take it with you like a walking companion. a cut here a chop there several times a day, you'd be surprised how much it can help, I even deviate off the parth just after the sheep have been in and pasture, seems to help especially creeping thistles and docks have a satisfying chop.

FiB · « **Reply #8 on:** June 13, 2013, 05:21:11 am »

Quote from: wonderwooly on June 12, 2013, 11:08:30 pm

I noted a while back the old folks here always walking about seemingly random areas with a hand scyale, and now I do the same, arrr, if its on the way to do something or look at this or that animal just take it with you like a walking companion. a cut here a chop there several times a day, you'd be surprised how much it can help, I even deviate off the parth just after the sheep have been in and pasture, seems to help especially creeping thistles and docks have a satisfying chop.

I do exactly the same - although I wish I knew at what stage of development was best for stunting regrowth (I don't think the old rhyme cut them in may etc etc applies this year (or any in these climate changing times?) - after flowering but before seeding is my current guess (esp wrt thistles)

wonderwooly · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2013, 09:37:05 pm »

yes I think your right before seading, but after having a conversation with and local
org farmer and asking how to deal with nettle his answer was quite simple coupe, so that
is what i do, I think its probably right that if you cut at a specific time it is no doubt best but offten and persistent is also just as valid if you happen to be there with scythe in hand don't wait they generally don't like being cut. happy cutting..

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #10 on:** June 14, 2013, 09:46:17 am »

I've been told that you'll take more out of the plant with a blunt long bruising cut than with a single clean cut - it can block off the sap at a clean cut quite quickly but will seep far longer along a length of bruising. So in a way you may be better with a stick than a scythe, or you can use a 'dashel basher', designed for the job. We attacked thistles with the hay bob held a foot off the ground a couple of years back - and the thistles were reduced by at least as much as and possibly more than they would've been by topping.

The other tool that's used for docks (which have much tougher stems, so much harder to make a bruising break in the outer layer) is a spudder. It's a thing a bit like an old-fashioned veg peeler (the sort you can also use to core apples) stuck on the end of a stick. You push it into the ground where the root of the dock will be, and break the plant off there. Yes they regrow from the root that's left, but if you keep repeating the treatment you will weaken the plant.

wonderwooly · « **Reply #11 on:** June 15, 2013, 08:52:45 pm »

ohh a spudder. I am always on the look out of a grate new hand tool..

I find the old boys at the local markets here a gold mine of old tools, But aside that
yes good point bashing is also a good idea, I have heard fern respond
well to bashing and treading as well. and to boot I have been told that in times past
the locals Southen french used to use stilts to walk about on so they didn't harm the crop
and ground but could bash cut out more specifically.!

Bramblecot · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2013, 08:00:50 pm »

I should add that if I can't pull the weeds out

, I stomps on 'em in me steel toe-capped boots

. Great stress-busting exercise.

shropshire_blue · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2013, 03:58:06 pm »

Well, I thought I'd try to persuade my sheep to eat them, so after a few days on fairly short grass, they went into the field in question and have make a pretty big dent in the docks. A few more days and they'll get a nice fresh field as a reward...

I've managed to get on top of most of the big thistles by pulling them out last year, but the creeping thistles are *everywhere* this year. I'm doing rounds with grazon regularly, but I reckon it's a long term job.

covebeech · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:52:43 pm »

Any good tips for a field full of hogweed AND docks? I'm tending towards the spot spraying with glyphosate, and I've been organic all my life!! Alternative is to spend quite a lot on fencing and put in a ewe or so, I suppose, but I don't think they'll take to the hogweed!!