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Author Topic: mastitis  (Read 4255 times)

theblacksheep

  • Joined Aug 2010
mastitis
« on: May 21, 2013, 07:47:26 pm »
Oh boo.  One ewe with mastitis.  First time lamber, mother of twins.  Has had Engemycin etc, have given up trying to strip the quarter as only blood squeezed out.  Ow.  Lambs with her but on bottle too. I expect the quarter will slough off.  Nice.  Question:  when is it safe to put her back with the main flock ?  For how long would she be depositing strep bacteria on the soil/grass and so be a risk to other lactating ewes ? There seems to be very little research into this - presumably because commercial farmers would go for the bullet at first sign of mastitis but I'm OK with keeping her on as a 'retired' ewe, I just don't want to endanger the others.  Thank you. 

Marlboro

  • Joined Jan 2013
  • West Wales
  • 42 sheep, 5 ducks 10 chickens and Meg
Re: mastitis
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2013, 07:55:10 pm »
Don't know if it will slough or not. One of my hoggs had it last year, treated her and she appeared to 'get better'.  She is currently feeding a lovely pair of twins and has shown no sign of a repeat. I think we did four days pen and strep. Good luck she may come ok. Humans get it too you know and are rarely culled or loose a breast. :thinking:

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: mastitis
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2013, 08:03:37 pm »
One jag of Alamycin LA into the udder (inject downwards and make sure it doesn't ooze back out) should sort mastitis. I have no idea if it is passed between ewes or not, but have never had the space to isolate infected ewes - had a few cases last year, none before and none this year (touch wood), but yes, I would cull as soon as she is better and has put enough condition back on to go to market.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: mastitis
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2013, 08:15:57 pm »
Pretty sure it's not passed between ewes. It's caused by bacteria they have on their skin anyway, getting into the teat and udder through cuts, sometimes caused by hungry lambs pulling hard for more milk when the supply gets low. Which is why you can get it when it suddenly goes cold. Grass stops growing, sheep have less to eat, milk supply drops, lambs pull harder.

Anyway. As SteveHants says, Alamycin LA into the udder, or the antibiotics you  get in a tube that goes up the teat. And strip out as often as possible (but clearly not just when you've put the antibiotic in........)

I've had ewes where I've continued to rub and strip, who saved their bag. Sometimes functional later, sometimes not but at least it didn't slough off. Once I persuaded myself that I was hurting her (I was but keep reading) and stopped the rub and strip. The bag did slough and it is such a disgusting, miserable and painful process that now I always rub and strip.

By doing it every 4 hours, day and night for several days, I saved my goat's udder - she still milks fine. Should say that I caught this one early as I was milking her at the time.

If you can get a Metacam injection it lasts for about 3 days and reduces both the pain and the inflammation, which helps a lot.


lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: mastitis
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2013, 08:33:08 pm »
The only type where you would need to consider isolation is where they develop multiple cysts all over the udder, can't remember the technical name, we had a case of that at weaning time and I treated the ewe and then culled her. Vet said normal mastitis would be fine to keep with the rest but that type it's best to separate.

sh3ph3rd

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Queensland, Australia
Re: mastitis
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2013, 08:36:49 pm »
Mastitis can be caused by a few things, not just a strep infection. Other bacteria can cause it as well as environmental factors, genetic, etc.

Some people prefer to cull to try to gain some measure of certainty, (which I think is rather impossible, while I appreciate their reasons for doing so), but I prefer to try to find the exact cause and learn how to both treat it and prevent it in future. What happens when it occurs to what you think is your best-ever breeder, especially if you've been working on your own strain? Even if you're not, I value my multiply-exposed animals over newbies who haven't tested their immune systems against anything. 

Hardy breeds got hardy because their breeders didn't tend to cull for any and every illness and injury. There's commonsense, and there's commercialism. Commercialism isn't looking like it'll be attributable for any long-lived and hardy breeds for future generations, only fast producers geared toward surviving short term in very unnatural environments heavily medicated against even common, temporary and non fatal diseases. Think of the future human generations, I says! What are we leaving them, genetically speaking?  :rant: Nah, I'm joking, not ranting, just talking too much... As I tend to, apologies...

Having said that, I'm not condemning any commercial farmers, we do the best we can with what we know and have, and we've got to make a living, and all the other reasons we do what we do. Just why I wouldn't cull that ewe if she were mine. Mastitis is fairly common, treatable, its only real death-row-worthy crime is the time and sometimes financial costs of treating it. Of course, some females are serial offenders... But that's likely a genetic problem that needs addressing. Culling her and continuing on with her sisters, mother, brothers etc doesn't fix the problem in that case, and how would you know for sure...

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: mastitis
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 12:30:27 am »
Hardy breeds got hardy because their breeders didn't tend to cull for any and every illness and injury.....


No, they died.


It is only comparativeley recently that we have had the massive arsenal of drugs at our disposal that we have today.


I do see part of my role in culling as 'natural selection' as far as is practical. Mastitis kills sheep if it is not treated, and it may well be a heritable trait, same goes for ease of lambing, suceptability to footrot, TLD etc. A sheep that has these problems has no place in my system and neither do its daughters. Everything is tagged and recorded so I know who is who. I fully intend to extend the culling program to ewes who dont show natural worm resistance, it is just going to take longer and needs me to buy a microscope.


What is amazing about culling on a "one-strike" system is how many ewes you end up not culling. They say that 5% of your floc make 95% of your work and I have to say, this is pretty much my experience.

sh3ph3rd

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Queensland, Australia
Re: mastitis
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2013, 04:55:55 pm »
Quote
No, they died.

Have to disagree with you there. Too generalized a statement. I'm referring to the modern attitude of culling as opposed to attempting to find a solution. Ancient shepherds knew what could be fixed and what couldn't, generally speaking, whereas modern shepherds are keener to cull even if it can be fixed.

Of course they lost some animals but in general they didn't just cull as a matter of course. Old literature is full of the natural remedies they used with success. These remedies still work today, except on some of those diseases made stronger by continued exposure to antibiotics leading to antibiotic resistance.

Quote
It is only comparativeley recently that we have had the massive arsenal of drugs at our disposal that we have today

And yet we cull more than ever before, for curable problems. I don't believe the pharmaceutically driven commercialism is doing our race or any other any great favours. We aren't developing hardier breeds, in fact we are developing weaklier breeds dependant on artificial environments and antibiotics.

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: mastitis
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 06:30:34 pm »
And yet we cull more than ever before, for curable problems. I don't believe the pharmaceutically driven commercialism is doing our race or any other any great favours. We aren't developing hardier breeds, in fact we are developing weaklier breeds dependant on artificial environments and antibiotics.


Why would keeping cull animals make them any more hardy - it is preciseley by removing animals from the gene pool that need antibiotics, more frequent worming etc that you are creating hardier breeds. I would agree that weaker breeds are being developed, but it is because people are reluctant to cull rather than vice versa. Look at New Zealand - the situation over there meant that culling had to be ruthless in order to make sheep farming profitable and now  their genetics are exported worldwide.

sh3ph3rd

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Queensland, Australia
Re: mastitis
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2013, 07:00:53 pm »
Quote
Why would keeping cull animals make them any more hardy

I actually do agree with you that certain animals must be culled because they are prone to failure in one or many ways, and should not breed. No disagreement there, the only thing I'm speaking against is the arbitrary culling of an animal for a problem it can overcome which may not be something it is likely to come down with again, hence the need for proper diagnosis as to whether or not it's an inherited problem or particularly weakly animal. I've got no argument against you or anyone being part of the natural selection process, as you said, in fact I believe that's a necessary part of every responsible farmer's job. Within reason and there's exceptions to every rule...

Animals will get ill when exposed to something they do not have resistance to, so culling them for that won't engender resistant genetics. For example: if you've got an endemic disease on the farm and your stock are resistant, but a certain animal comes down with it twice, that'd be a culler, but if you don't have that disease and it gets introduced to your herd and your animals come down with it, that's in need of treatment, rather than culling. It's more about finding whether or not it's the animal's 'fault' in each case. Or it is anyway in my opinion, everyone's entitled to theirs.

I wouldn't cull for mastitis unless I knew it was a congenital problem or the animal was otherwise nonviable, for instance too damaged. I would prefer to know for sure, so I could remove the family line if necessary, rather than keep culling the symptom, so to speak, and never finding the cause of disease. I don't tolerate problem makers either, I cull for less than hardy reactions to disease or injury, but in order to achieve strong stock I give animals a chance to heal from any assault they seem inclined to. If their immune system can't buck up and do its job with a little natural support, I cull; I wouldn't go so far as to use antibiotics except maybe for a pet under extenuating circumstances.

Over each generation of them being allowed a chance to dominate the disease with often only garlic as support, I've obtained measurably tougher and tougher stock, breeding even tougher stock in turn, and now problems that were common, aren't; in fact most are gone completely. That's what I meant regarding the hardy breeds we've inherited, compared to the more modern breeds which can't cope in the same environments their ancestors were reared by our ancestors within. The only support they received was natural and if they couldn't make it on that they died one way or another, but they were often given more chance than their modern descendants. That's where the hardy comes into it, it's a toughened immune system and better adapted DNA due to being 'in the wars' and emerging victorious. If that ewe's mastitis wasn't her fault, and she survives and emerges tougher, then is culled anyway, that strengthened immune response is not passed on to any offspring, which I would consider a loss. If she's predisposed for some reason, better to know for sure and inspect her family line too. But all this my be irrelevant to someone who isn't working on their own breeds, I don't know your situations, so maybe what you're doing is more relevant to your situation.

 

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