[Mickey]

Hi,
We are still looking around for a smallholding and have so far looked at a couple of places.  Can anyone advise on how much land we should be looking for please?  We thought that it would be best to go for as much as we could get so looked at a property with 55 acres.  Now we are a little confused as to what we need.  My OH would like to have enough space for -
- a small number of sheep, perhaps 3-4,
- a couple of pigs,
- a few chickens as we have now (about
- and 2 or 3 dogs.

To that I would want space for a decent garden, a greenhouse and perhaps a poly-tunnel.

A neighbour has a little over 2 acre on which they keep 3 horses, we are wondering if 2 to 3 acres of land would be a reasonable size for what we want to have?

Thanks,
Mickey

[Fleecewife]

'A few acres' seems enormous when you first move in - very daunting  .  However, given the fact that sheep are addictive, and that you may want to modify your original ideas once you experience the reality, I would recommend a few more than 2 or 3 acres.   We started with 6 1/2 acres initially, intended to be for market gardening, but all plans had to change drastically just after we moved, so we now breed mainly Hebridean sheep, keep hens for laying, grow all our own veg, herbs and flowers and much of our fruit. On the way we have also had pigs and ducks.  We bought another few acres from a neighbour but it's like squeezing blood from a stone to get a farmer to part with his land (and rightly so).  Now we have a bit extra we can cater for wildlife, an area we love to be involved with.
 
So somewhere between 6 and 10 acres, with good soil, sounds as if it would be right for you - enough space but not overwhelming.   Beware of the boggy, rushy, acid land that farmers are happy to sell - you will need more of it and life will always be a bit more of a struggle.  When you view, look around you at what's growing and it's a good idea to view on a horrible rainy day.  Take a spade and dig down to assess your soil for both depth and type.  Don't rush just to get 'something'.  Good Luck 

[Backinwellies]

2 to 3 acreas would be plenty  enough for that list ... be sure you wont want to expand the number of sheep as then you may need more. It is usually not difficult to rent out a field but harder to get extra land near your home if you decide you want more.  Agricultural land has been a good investment in recent years.   55 acreas would be very adventurous! 

Soil type and grazing quality maybe somethings to concider.

.... fleecewife posted just before I did .... but we seem to be agreed. 

[SallyintNorth]

What an acre will hold can very widely depending on where, climate, what sort of ground.  You also have to consider what livestock you want to carry over winter, and whether they'll be housed or not.  They'll need forage (hay, silage) - shall you make it yourself or buy it in?  If the former, you'll need ground on which to grow it.

I don't know where you are now, but 2 acres doesn't sound much for 3 horses     May be ok in spring/summer, when the grass is growing and it's not too wet underfoot..

The 'normal' rule of thumb is an acre per horse or cow, 5 sheep to the acre.  Double the ground - at least - if it's wet/rushy.  And double again if you want to make your own winter forage.

Having said all of which, for the livestock and uses that you list, more than 10 acres could be a burden, less than 3 could be very very tight.

Spare acres can usually be rented to local farmers / sheepkeepers, so it would be better to have more rather than less, then there's room for expansion.

[Plantoid]

My bro  who was the lead a horse rider on the gun carriages used by  King's troop RHA once told me that the army rules for out to grass horses was seven acres per horse per year with rotation so as to stop that dread full cliche for neglect called " Pony sickness " .
 Depending on the local authority rules there might also be some sort of restrictions as to what you can call a small holding and what you an try to do on it. Well worth checking for the things you are looking to take up .

[tizaala]

A general rule of thumb is :
1 horse or cow
or 5 sheep
to an acre 

[Dan]

There's a series of articles in the grassland management area of the site including a section on stocking rates, rotational grazing and forage:

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/smallholding/grassland-management/

HTH. 

[devonlad]

when we first bought our 4 1/2 acres it seemed huge and we weren't really sure what we would do with all of it. we toyed with a donkey sanctuary ( my OH loves donkeys) but after realising we'd never fit a whole one in the freezer we started with a couple of goats before turning to our lovely sheep 3 years ago. as mentioned previously sheep ( and perhaps any livestock) can be addictive. our original 3 couldn't come close to grazing the land effectively and over the past few years 3 has become 11 ewes and 16 newborns plus two shearlings and a couple of rams. last year we also fenced off a 1/4 acre and raised a bit of pork- plus there's the chickens and a huge veg patch. doesnt seem quite so huge now and we are renting a grazing field for the summer, to rest the land, ease the worm load and possible even take a bit of hay off. we have simply grown into our plot and now will have to decide which breeding animals to keep and which ones to sell (or eat).

[sabrina]

I have 5 which is never enough as part of that is a long hill which gets very wet in the winter, not safe for the ponies. Just now with the weather being so cold we lack grass where as last year we had too much in February as it became warm and the grass shot up. Bottom paddock gets too wet over the winter so is not used. when looking for land ask around as local people will be able to tell you if it is prone to flooding. also what has it been used for in the past. Look for good fencing as that is expensive,

[Mickey]

Fantastic help, thanks everyone.  Definitely food for thought, we have just one property in our 'toplist' at the moment, that one has 2 1/2 acres with a large barn which would be very useful for us.  Just not sure about the acreage, current owner did say they thought it unlikely the farmer would sell anything, the house is surrounded on all four sides by the farmland and is idyllic, just need to decide if the acreage will be enough.

Thanks again,
Mickey

[spandit]

He might not sell it but he could well be open to rental offers for some land. That way if you decide it's too much then you just give it back!

[scarlettoara]

i always thought it was 3 acres per horse. def not one acre per ponies unless they were in at night and you poo-picked every day.
we are looking to move and our top priority is a good range of livestock barns as they are so expensive to build. (even a concrete base is thousands.)

[Tudful Tamworths]

Mickey: I would rule out the 2.5 acre property. Bearing in mind the wish list of livestock you already have, I would say you've got the smallholding bug and it would only be a matter of time before you realised you needed more land.


Buying a smallholding is like buying a shed or a greenhouse - you think there is plenty of space when you start, but soon realise you should have gone bigger.


If I was in your shoes, I'd be looking for a minimum of 5 acres, but preferably 10 to 15.


Good luck with your search - but don't settle for second best.


Liz

[HesterF]

Yep, remember you have to have space to rotate the stock around as well so it's not just what you can stock at but you need to at least double that to give the land a chance to rest. I once thought 2 1/2 acres was huge but really it's not that big if you want all that livestock. We've got 8 1/2 acres which is plenty of space to play with for all of those (although I've taken sheep off the wish list and replaced them with vineyard) but as so many have said, it depends on the terrain. Ours is all good quality grassland in a relatively dry area (certainly at the moment).

H

[FiB]

Agree with all above - we have about 12, about 6-7 of which is good grazing/capable of generating forage (the rest is woodland/marshy mountain land), could now happily use double, but would not have known where to start if we had gone for more initially!  I think a couple of acres would be fantastic if you were sure you just wanted the minimum amount of each animal.... but it IS all pretty addictive.  I cant stop hatching chickens and we now have TOOOOOO many,  Good job most of our lambs were rams as the sheep would have gone the same way!!!!!!