[graham-j]

Hi,I have a small flock of ewes I bought as lambs last year,at some point I will need to buy a ram.
When is it best to buy a ram.What age is bet to get,I have some where completely separate to keep him,is it fair to keep him on his own or is there anything else I could keep him with.I was looking to Buy a Texal ram.

Graham.

[Blacksheep]

Where are you intending buying from? If a sale they will not start selling rams until later in the summer usually. If you are buying direct from a breeder then you can buy anytime, although if buying a ram lamb will need to wait until he is weaned.
You can breed from ram lambs, so I wouldn't be too worried about age, are you just looking to produce lambs for meat?   I would however thing twice about using a texel for first time lambing ewes as their confirmation can lead to difficult lambings, it maybe worth thinking about a tup that has a conformation that lends itself towards easier lambings.

[graham-j]

Hi,thanks I was thinking along the lines of a Ram lamb,for as much as anything to give myself a chance to get used to handling him.I have grown weathers on to two year olds that is the only experience I have of male sheep.
the ewes I have are Texel X Suffolk's,which is why I thought a Texel would be the best ram to go for.What ram would you sagest.

Thanks Graham.

[Simon O]

This was the advice I was given for my small flock of ewes (10): don't buy a ram, hire or borrow one each year. This means you do not have to have somewhere separate to keep him; saves on year- round feeding of a ram; if keeping offspring from bought ram will need to change every couple of years to prevent inbreeding, so overall probably cheaper to hire not buy, also have the opportunity to try different crosses each year if you want.

[devonlad]

hi- having a small flock like yourself has made the ram situation quite tricky. We started a couple of years ago with three ewes and although we are now up to 12 it still is far too few to justify owning a ram unless space is no object and he has somewhere secure and accompanied to while away the down time. We have also found hiring one difficult as it can be hard to find someone willing to risk it. The first two years we were lucky enough to borrow one from a neighbour, but this removed the element of choice re breed. This year we decided to buy one, use him and then sell him on.. This has not so fa been successful (wrong time of year to be selling a ram) we have just managed to secure an arrangement, via another forum where we will in future borrow a ram for 6 months and then he'll return home for the other 6 months. this appears to be mutually beneficial and he's the "right" breed, I suspect like us it will take a while till you arrive at the ideal solution. goodluck

[SallyintNorth]

If you use a breed like Texel, you could buy a ram lamb, use him and then sell him in the fat.  Or if you have a wether or two he can be with before and after working, then you can keep him on.  A Texel should be pretty docile (aka lazy ) so could run with the ewes and lambs year round if you are not too concerned about when your ewes lamb, otherwise you'd need to keep him with wethers when you don't want him tupping.

Although your Texel x Suffolk ewes will be pretty big, I would concur that an easier-lambing breed may be a better choice for their first time.  Charollais or Lleyn, perhaps, depending on what you can buy locally. Once they've lambed once, a Texel should be fine.  Or a Dutch Texel even better - they're smaller. 

We're considering using a Shetland or Shetland x Charollais on our first-timers, having been so delighted with how our Charollais x hoggs performed with their Shetland lambs this time.   (I'd happily use a Charollais tup lamb but the full grown Charollais tup we have is now a big lad, a bit heavy for them for their first tupping - although the lambs would be fine, easy lambing and vigourous.)

[onnyview]

If you use a breed like Texel, you could buy a ram lamb, use him and then sell him in the fat.  Or if you have a wether or two he can be with before and after working, then you can keep him on.  A Texel should be pretty docile (aka lazy ) so could run with the ewes and lambs year round if you are not too concerned about when your ewes lamb, otherwise you'd need to keep him with wethers when you don't want him tupping.

Although your Texel x Suffolk ewes will be pretty big, I would concur that an easier-lambing breed may be a better choice for their first time.  Charollais or Lleyn, perhaps, depending on what you can buy locally. Once they've lambed once, a Texel should be fine.  Or a Dutch Texel even better - they're smaller. 

We're considering using a Shetland or Shetland x Charollais on our first-timers, having been so delighted with how our Charollais x hoggs performed with their Shetland lambs this time.   (I'd happily use a Charollais tup lamb but the full grown Charollais tup we have is now a big lad, a bit heavy for them for their first tupping - although the lambs would be fine, easy lambing and vigourous.)

Sally, interesting about the Charollais. We are wanting a terminal size to use on our Llanwenogs, but we were worried about lack of wool on the lambs.....what's your experience?

[SallyintNorth]

Yes, lack of wool can be an issue if you have bad weather at lambing.  The fineness of the 'skin' is of course one of the things that makes it easy lambing - less friction in the birth canal.

We held off getting a Charollais for several years because of exactly this worry.  Then we read an article by another Cumbrian farmer who had switched to a Charollais tup; he said if you got a tup with plenty of wool on his head, his lambs would have a bit more fleece than those of a smooth-headed tup.

We bought an aged tup who had a judge's wig on there and tried him.  He was so successful we later bought one of his grandsons - who I sometimes call Carpet Head  . 

The lambs can be a bit bare, and we do put the plastic macs on the newborns if the weather is cold and wet or predicted to be so.  One or two pairs every year are so bare (and the weather unkind) that we bring them in for a couple of days - but this will be just one or two out of 60-100 ewes lambing to the Charollais.

We do always bring in any ewe (whichever tup she's gone to) that looks like lambing overnight if the weather is dreadful, mind, and also any families with newborns who are only a few hours old at dusk.

For us, the ease of lambing and the vigour of the newborn lambs, coupled with the tremendous growth rates and top-bonus-earning conformation are worth the extra work and expense of jacketing the newborns.  And whilst we may lose one or two thin-skinned lambs born before dawn on a bad day, I do think that overall we probably lose more Texel x lambs - the Charollais x lambs are so vigourous and up and looking for the teat so quickly, so get the warming colostrum into their bodies before the weather chills them too much.  On a cold wet dawn, the more dopey Texel x lambs may not get the necessary warming drink quickly enough, and despite having a warmer coat, can get more chilled than the livelier and greedier Charollais x lambs born at the same time.

If you can check your lambs first thing in the morning, jacket the newborns unless it's sunny and warm, and have any ewes likely to lamb or just lambed on a bad night indoors, then with a woolly-headed Charollais tup you should be fine . 

Crossed with Llanwenog you'd get a great carcase  - and lovely fleece for handspinning 

[graham-j]

Hi,thanks for all the advice,I think I will go with buying a ram lamb.I tried borrowing a ram from the guy I bought my sheep off in the first place,he agreed to lend me one but then moaned about it to my dad later,I would rather have my own,I have an orchard away from my other sheep that I keep 3 weathers,he can go up there.
Is a ram likly to try and escape if he gets the urge.

Next question what would be a fair price to pay for a Charollais ram lamb and any Idea where I can get one I'm in Kent.

Thanks again Graham.

[Marches Farmer]

I've known a ram jump a 5ft sheeted gate at tupping time .....

[SteveHants]

I had a ram jump out of a livestock trailer over the (up) tailgate once, through a 2 and a half foot gap....




I am thinking (only thinking, mind) about keeping a suftex x 'easycare' (texel mule x easycare) ram lamb out of this years lot to put to my ewe lambsas I'm guessing it will be a bit smaller, but will have a very good confomation  and easy lambing attributes. If you are willing to wait and see how they turn out, I would only want £10 over meat price for one. I'll post a pic of the ram and the ewe with lambs at foot if you like the idea.

[Bionic]

Graham, have you thought about the possibility of taking your girls to the ram for a 'holiday' rather than having a ram at your place?
I was able to take my girls back to the place I bought them from (thanks Karen) where they stayed for a couple of months until the deed was done.
It seems to have worked well for us.

[Remy]

I'm not sure if this would even be an option - but I have two rams (well three at the mo but one has to go!) - a Ryeland, Zwartbles and Gotland (Gotland sadly has to go).  This means I can keep a closed flock and breed one's offspring to the other.  I have Charollais ewes and breed them to the Ryeland - they have loads of wool!  I also experimented with the Zwartbles and got some lovely lambs, it will be interesting to see how they will turn out for market.


The Zwartbles unfortunately is a fence jumper (got over three sets of stock fencing with electric on top  ) to get at my Gotland ewes!  He has to be kept in a field he can't get out of.  The rams are quite happy together so  long as they don't get a whiff of ewes in season ..


He managed to have his way with my smallest Gotland, it wasn't a mating I planned due to his size but she has had lovely little twins no problem.

[SallyintNorth]

Our Charollais works well but isn't a jumper.  He's at his most lively when there is cake about...    (but never misses a ewe and we generally work him on a big batch in a looooong twisty meandering sort of a pasture.)

We've bought well-bred tups and paid for them accordingly; if you are happy with tup lambs from lesser breeders and/or the lesser ones from the better breeders then you ought not to have to spend too much.  I've no idea about sales or breeders in Kent but if you approach the breed society I'm sure they'll be delighted to tell you about sales and probably have lists of breeders in your area.

And had I known you were in Kent I wouldn't have wittered on about bare lambs and carpet heads - with your climate you'll be absolutely fine with any Charollais tup.   Only maybe do check the tup has wool cover all over - or he may get sunburnt!  (I jest not.)

[colliewoman]

You could do worse for their 1st time than use a shetland tup
Nice small lambs for a newbie to deliver, and once on the ground shetland crosses grow like weeds