[FiB]

or it could be more a problem with the first time shepherd!!!  day before yesterday had a 'pet lamb' mule ewe ignore and reject her second twin (resulting in new 'pet lamb') and what I decided in hindsight was that I could have done more maybe to get her to accept him... now today another first time mum with twins (but a 'normal' beulah), not out and out rejection - licked them both a bit but kept walking off to graze.  the strongest one got up and followed her but the other just left in the middle of the field bleating (no response from mum  after about an hour from birth I decided to make a temporary pen on field to see if that would help with the mothering up - so far no probs but they still havnt managed to find her teats.  Firstly is the pen OK (big enough) - she has nuts and water in it.  secondly how long before I intervene food wise and try and get colostrum off ewe and tube (3 hrs since birth now)?  Many thanks anyone Fi xxx  I am terrified of intervening too much/too early (which I may have allready done!!!) or not early enough!!!!

[Foobar]

Does the weak lamb suck if you put your finger in it's mouth? Is it warm?  if so, have you tried holding the weak lamb up to her teat? (turn the ewe over if necessary, and hook the lamb into her teat)  It might just need that initial drink to get it going.
If you can't get it onto her teat then tube it.  Get something into it within 6 hours of birth ideally.  You might find that after it's first drink it will be ok.
(and yes, that pen size looks fine to me )

[Foobar]

Sorry i think i might have misread your original post (I'm having a blonde day today  ) .. are you saying neither has found the teat after 3 hours, or just the one?

[FiB]

neither I think (both are burrowing around mostly at the wrong end - but twin No2 looks OK so she may have snuck some.  Twin No 1 looking better now and being thoroughly licked so I dont want to go in and manhandle quite yet?  Given both a couple of squirts of some lamb start stuff.....  THANK YOU for being there .  will make sure I do what you have advised within the 6 hours - but a bit more hopefull now that it willhappen naturally as she is looking a lot more motherly!!!  Tea in the field tonight I think!!!!

[Foobar]

Yes sometimes they sneak a drink when you aren't looking.  Give it a bit, and keep an eye on them, then judge it by the size of their tummys. Being in the pen will help the ewe focus her mind on the babies

[The Irish Shepherd]

Fib, Buy a Cox's sheep halter, about a fiver, halter the ewe and if you have a collie dog, put that near it, it will soon get motherly.

[SallyintNorth]

Again, Sally's usual warning to be very careful with the collie dog trick, especially with hill-type sheep.  It can make the ewe so aggressive the red mist causes her to head-butt everything around her, including her lambs.   Yes, even if the collie is not right next to the pen.  Far better, IMO, to distract her with cake 

[Sbom]

Give the ewe corn and then take hold of a teat, fill it with milk and put it in the lambs mouth. He should start sucking as soon as he tastes the milk. Repeat with second lamb, they normally catch on quite quickly.

[FiB]

well tried the turning her over and getting them to suckle that way - No joy.  at least I know she has milk though.  Still mothered up and lambs still having a good go - neither look hunched at the mo.....  I'm thinking keep them penned up together overnight and keep checking whilst light.  I've not really any practical indoor solution which is a shame as its starting to rain so I know that will compound any coldness possibilities if they havnt had a good feed......
 
by 6:30 that will be 6 hrs - do I tube anyway or assume/hope that if mothered up AND they are trying AND she has milk that nature will sort?  Ah us first time lambers (thats me) are nothing but trouble!  Many thanks.  (oh and no easy reach shops or collie so that one not an option!  I do have cracked corn though - is that better than ewe nuts?)

[Marches Farmer]

Ewe nuts will do fine. If you're not sure a lamb has suckled I'd recommend erring on the side of caution and tubing anyway.  The brown fat they're born with gives enough energy for the first six hours but if they don't take in an alternative source of energy by then they become hypothermic very rapidly and then don't have the energy to suck, so on a downhill spiral.  The antibodies from the colostrum can only be absorbed for a very short time (around 16 hours maximum) after birth and without them they'll be very susceptible to clostridial diseases, which are everywhere in their environment

[Bionic]

Fi, I feel for you.
Its difficult for us first timers as everything seems to be a problem. My last one to lamb was so enthusiastic in licking him that he couldn't get to the teat. Each time he tried she turned round to lick him some more so the two of them were walking round and round.
In the end I gave her some ewe nuts to keep her occupied and pushed him at her teat while she was busy eating. They both seem to get the message after that. Fingers crossed    that we are both worrying unnecessarily

[SteveHants]

You want to be looking at the lambs and not the ewe, they will often feed when you aren't looking. If they have full bellies then they are actually getting milk, you just aint seeing it happen.


I've watched ewes give birth, lick the lamb, have a bit of a graze nearby, have another, lick that, graze a bit whilt the first learns how to get up, let it suck whilst they clean the second.....and so on.


Its almost painful to watch the progress on a ewe lambing outside. You know that the lambs have 4 (or is it 6?) hours of brown fat, and also the ewe knows you are watching. I like watching the process, but If I feel tempted to interfere, I wander off for a bit. I will interfere if one of the lambs has wandered miles from the ewe whilst she is dealing with a second or if the lamb is hunched over. Once you have established you have a suitable breed for outdoor lambing, you just have to lear to trust the ewe.

[FiB]

You want to be looking at the lambs and not the ewe, they will often feed when you aren't looking. If they have full bellies then they are actually getting milk, you just aint seeing it happen.


I've watched ewes give birth, lick the lamb, have a bit of a graze nearby, have another, lick that, graze a bit whilt the first learns how to get up, let it suck whilst they clean the second.....and so on.


Its almost painful to watch the progress on a ewe lambing outside. You know that the lambs have 4 (or is it 6?) hours of brown fat, and also the ewe knows you are watching. I like watching the process, but If I feel tempted to interfere, I wander off for a bit. I will interfere if one of the lambs has wandered miles from the ewe whilst she is dealing with a second or if the lamb is hunched over. Once you have established you have a suitable breed for outdoor lambing, you just have to lear to trust the ewe.

Thank you.  First timers panic I think - dont want to interfere, but end up doing so!!!  I will trust them all (and myself) next year!!  I bought Lleyn and Beulah because they are supposed to be good mothers and outdoor lambers so I need to chill out and let them get on with it!  Do you find a difference in first timer ewes and the older ewes in terms of success/intervention? They were both snuggled up and looking OK at dusk (decide not to tube, but did turn the ewe over and got the weaker one latched on) so fingers crossed.  I will get better wih each one!  3 down, 11 to go!!  Thanks agin so much all of you - you dont know how much of a comfort it is to have an experienced community out there to share views and help me make my choices.  Fi xxx

[SteveHants]

Dunno about Belulahs, but most of my breeding is based around a lleyn and a wilts horn (although I do have some fancy mixes). I am in the process of lambing 40 first timers (texel x mule x easycare - went to a suftex ram) ewes that I bought to try some slightly different genetics and out of those, 20 have lambed so far and of those I have had to help 2 - one massive single which I had to pull never really sucked, so I orphaned it at the end of the day (was born 10amish, so it must have been getting something but didn't look like it'd last the night - I might have given it the chance had it not been raining so heavily and one set of twins where the gap between them must have been a long time as the bigger had followed another ewe miles from its dam (and by that I mean across 1 10 ac ad another 5 ac field) whilst it dealt with the runty one. I penned those up for 24 hours and kept checking to see the lambs weren't hungry (I never actually saw them suckle either).


You do learn to leave them alone in time. It is always tempting when a two day old lamb is curled up miles from its mother to pick it up and take it back, but believe me,, you then end up creating a whole world of mess because its bleats then stir up the other ewes, panic ensues etc....In reality the ewe knows damn fine where her lamb is and will come back for it later.

[SallyintNorth]

My own rules of thumb are:

Experienced ewes - generally assume everything is alright unless something is clearly amiss.  Of course I still check for plump bellies, and look at the ewe's undercarriage in case of misshapen bag / overlarge teats, etc, when the lambs may need help to find their way on.

First-time ewes - never assume the lamb(s) has/have suckled unless you either see them with the teat in their mouths (it's not enough that they are sucking under there somewhere - they'll suck a piece of wool for ages, waggling their silly little tails apparently happily ) or see that they have plump bellies / aren't hollow.

A first-timer with twins, I think I would always pen for a while if I could.  Best, if conditions allow, to let her get them birthed and licked, ideally on their feet, before intervening, but then pen them up so she bonds with both.  A first-timer with a single that's clearly suckled, and she's mothering it, I'd leave 'em to it unless there's any reason to interfere.

A quiet lamb is generally a happy lamb - but not always.  To check, get it up on its feet - it should stretch, and not look hollow.

A hungry lamb generally cries - but not always.  Check the crying lamb's belly for plumpness, its ears and inside its mouth for warmth.  If ears or especially inside the mouth are cold, take action.

A newly-born hunched-up lamb always needs keeping an eye on / investigating.

In bad weather / poor conditions my preference would be to have all first-timer indoors with their lambs so I can be sure they are mothered up and suckling properly - lambs can founder horribly quickly in cold wet weather.  In good years with good grass and warm weather, the singles will probably all do just fine outside. 

There's also a large component of knowing the breed / breeding and likely behaviour - but that comes with experience of lambing and of your own sheep.

Don't forget to enjoy it.