[Georgie_porgie]

Hi all, this is Georgie's boyfriend, I've got some questions on top of what she's already asked.

At my parents' house there's 10 acres of land available for free, two small woodlands about 3 acres in total and two fields about 7 acres.

At the minute we live and work in town about a 50 minute drive from the land, we are desperate to move out of town but where we move to will be determined by how often we need to check on the animals. Can anyone give us an idea of how often animals need to be checked? Neither of us like our jobs so finding new jobs in a more convenient location is on the cards too.

I go to my parents' house 2-3 days a week as I'm learning blacksmithing in a corner of their field, I often uses noisy power tools and am concerned that loud noises could stress out the animals, should this be a concern and could it affect what animals we keep? I've noticed that the horse riders that go down my parents' lane used to lazily walk by, since I've started making a racket they now trot by even though I'm a good 30 metres set back off the road.

My parents live in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, does the AONB affect what animals you can/can't keep? It's an agricutural area with a sheep farm near by, the neighbours on both sides have horses and my mum feeds "Mr Badger" who comes every night. Are there diseases we should be aware of and does the range of surrounding animals affect what animals we could keep? I.e I know badgers and cows don't mix, are horses and alpacas a clash for example?

Lastly, are there grants we should be aware of to take the financal sting out of the setup cost?


Thanks.

[tizaala]

Legal requirement : livestock must be checked daily .

[suziequeue]

Personal requirement: you'll find it difficult to tear yourself away from just watching them anyway - especially chickens.

[Clarebelle]

I'm not sure chickens would last very long with 'Mr Badger' around every night 

[doganjo]

Most animals would get used to the noise - ever listened on a farm to the tractors, combines and other equipment being used?

And I second all three of the above! - Daily check for at least three solid reasons - rent a house nearby, move in with your folks maybe - or a caravan in their garden?

Oh and I am very doubtful that you'll survive financially without at least one income so one of you should get a local job first.

[ellied]

I'd say if you have an offer of 10 acres free of rent, take it and start up slow -  maybe get sheep on from a local farmer rather than fill it with your own stock until you are close enough to take on livestock care, and learn from him in terms of sheep management while you're at it.  Or come to an agreement with him to get free grazing for the season for a set number of his sheep in return for caring for a set number of yours for the same period, aiming to get them to market before winter.  Similarly the woodland might support a few pigs and you could get care for yours in return for space for theirs and some sharing of experience when you can get there.  I'm not a pig or sheep person so can't advise but if you took pigs/sheep on with a view to sale or butchering before winter when the care costs/management input goes up you'd get valuable experience and find out whether they're for you and/or a marketable commodity locally.  And have some invaluable local friendly farmers to boot, sources of expertise and also maybe hay in future..

You said veg was a lower priority and at that distance you might think longer term planting initially rather than what needs a lot of input for short term cropping ie plant some fruit bushes, rhubarb etc but nothing that needs a lot of tending yet.  Meantime even in town you could try your hand at planting a few seed trays on the windowsill and seeing how you do. 

I wouldn't get hens until you're on site or nearby, once a day isn't enough for them let alone days you can't make it.  They're  more time specific than grazing animals.

Re the blacksmithing noise - livestock quickly get used to their environment, mine live under Leuchars flight path and beside an A road, the neighbours across the road go shooting and there is rarely a spook once they're acclimatised.  It is occasional unexpected things that cause the scare, road race cycle packs with whooshing solid back wheels going by cause more upset than the regular HGVs or tractors, the hunt that is in the area 3-4 days a year more upsetting/exciting than the shotguns going off almost every evening for weeks at a time.  Your smithing will soon be just normal background noise to stock living there, even if it becomes a longstanding "change upset" noise for horses that were used to being ridden by for years beforehand.

[Georgie_porgie]

Cheers folks.

Yep Doganjo, that paper stuff with the Queen's mug on it is a concern.

George is on the waiting list at the library for the Haynes Manual small holding book, are there any other books she should be keeping an eye out for? Books with info on costs would be very useful, I'm thinking along the lines of feed costs, vets bills etc etc etc

Living on my parents land is a possibility. The idea was always to sell the flat in town and buy somewhere in the countryside but maybe renting the flat out and living off the rent should be considered if we can live at very little cost on my parents land. The rent would essentially be our main income.

Thanks for the ideas Ellied, the local farmer did keep sheep on my parents land many moons ago. My parents also have an elderly neighbour who has lots of land and out-buildings, one of which is a piggery. The neighbour doesn't use any of them and has offered the use of them for free. We are resources rich but knowledge poor!

How do small holdings affect planning permission? Do they allow you any wiggle room? Do caravans need permission? I know the council are very savvy about people trying to turn agricultural land into residential land by "change of use". AONBs are notoriously difficult to build in.

[scarlettoara]

if the land has an agricultural tie then that would reflect what is supposed to be on the land. ie you have to have agricultural animals as opposed to recreational ponies.
if you are considering breeding then i find even a twice daily check is not enough. consider if you were due at work and the animal was having a difficult birth, its life and death.
badgers and tb are reason they are not encouraged near cows. iv heard they can eat/kill a whole litter of newborn piglets.
im sure most animals would get used to noises on their own land.
can you not put a caravan on the land for 6 mths and see how it goes?

[doganjo]

Renting your flat out and moving near your parents sounds promising to me - get on to it!

[spandit]

Legal requirement : livestock must be checked daily .

Some more guidelines here:

http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/adlib/defra/content.aspx?doc=249953&id=250030

[Lesley Silvester]

With all you have going for you, what with the land and piggery, etc.  what are you waiting for?  I'd be down there like a shot.  If you could live on the rent from your flat, at least until one of you has a job, you seem to have every opportunity that many would (almost) kill for.  Good luck.

[HesterF]

It all sounds perfect to me. To be honest, a 50 minute commute sounds doable too - at least for one of you. My husband commutes over an hour and has done for years (currently up to London from here). And if you could live rent free on the land in a caravan, then you'd be even better off on costs. Like the others have said, just don't take on too much, too soon. The thing I'm finding is that there are a lot of hidden costs. Even with little stuff like chickens, there are so many hidden costs, it's really hard to get them to even pay their way, let alone make money out of them (virtually impossible on egg sales alone, I would say).

Anyhow, hopefully I'll meet you in person next week. BTW, I've got a Haynes Smallholding Manual and a Chicken Manual you can have - got given them for Christmas and already had them. Would love them to go to a good home! We're in the AONB too (guessing the same one) and have just got planning permission for quite a lot of building work although none of it is a separate dwelling so I might be able to help with that too - although I still get a bit confused by some of it (e.g. we have a Nissen hut that will become a growing tunnel/general farm store and that requires no building regulation approval whereas the outbuilding that will become a utility room does?).

H

[tizaala]

A couple of points to consider :


1) adding the piggeries to your plot will complicate your holding number application .


2) agricultural animals must have a companion of the same species.


Visit the DEFRA website for more details

[Backinwellies]

Looks like you have the 'problem' most small holding dreamers dream off ...... land and buildings!   

My OH  'commutes'  160 miles so we can live our dream. (not daily ofcourse)

Start small, dont start with any livestock breeding enterprise just buy some fattening pigs or lambs or poultry so you can 'try it and see' without long term commitment. 

Do grow as much veg and feed plants as possible (not the bit I find interesting either but am hoping it will grow on me  ....

Maybe another smallholding dreamer lives close to the land .... options for sharing?

enjoy the endless opportunities!