[Remy]

Do those of you who sell your fleeces, shear the sheep yourselves? I know some breeds are shorn more than once.  There must be an optimum time to sell the fleece when it's at it's best, but does this coincide with the easiest time to shear, ie. when the fleece has risen?

[SallyintNorth]

Broadly yes, the best fleece is clipped at the point of rise - both in terms of timing and in terms of where the clippers run.

A really good handshearer who understands handspinners' needs may give a better fleece for handspinning than an electric clipping machine, partly because s/he can clip along the rise precisely, whereas the electric devices basically travel along the skin and so almost necessarily include just a little bit of new growth - and with it, the weakness that means that that new growth will break off during processing.

Some of the longwool breeds get clipped - not too short - before the winter.  For instance, some Wensleydales and Teeswaters may have 6" of their maximum 12" staple cut off at this time.  Great fleece for spinning - it hasn't weathered a winter - and makes the sheep more comfortable in any muddy or snowy weather to come.

Icelandic sheep are clipped on housing in the backend, and then again in summer.  I'm told that the pre-housing clip is too short to be of use as there hasn't been enough time for enough regrowth, but it is essential to the sheep on welfare grounds as otherwise they would be too hot indoors.

Some show sheep, or sheep destined for certain sales, get clipped at a time that gives them the optimum fleece cover for the show or sale, as appropriate.  Such 'unseasonal' clips can be hard to do as the fleece hasn't risen so the clippers won't glide through the fleece the same, but so long as the blades are sharp and there is sufficient staple length, such fibre should be fine to use for handspinning.

If you are selling 'raw' fleece (you should ideally wash the fleece in water even if you are selling it as unprocessed) then any handspinner will prefer to get his/her hands on it before the colder weather comes, as it is best to process - either scouring for longer term storage, or spinning 'in the grease' - before the grease sets.  A rule of thumb is that a greasy fleece wants to be washed or spun by Christmas.

[Bionic]

Very useful information Sally. thanks for posting

[SingingShearer]

The nicest fleeces tend to be from sheep shorn quite early as the wool hasn't risen so isn't damaged, when the wool rises a break occurs which damages the wool.

Professional blade shearers don't shear along the rise contrary to popular belief.
The rise makes very little difference to professional shearers either machine or blade as a professional shearer has equipment to cope in any conditions.

I dont know where the myth comes from that washed wool stores better but it is false as a raw fleece will last for years and still be usable whereas a washed fleece is far more prone to moths and rot.

There is a lot of misleading information about regarding wool, shearing and spinning, perpetuated by being repeated on the internet.

Philip

[SallyintNorth]

As Philip says, there are a lot of different opinions out there!

The 'myth' about washed fleece storing better arises, I think, because the cloths moth is attracted to dirty dark moistness.  Greasy fleece sweats and is likely to still be a bit dirty, even if it's had a cold water wash.  However, if correctly stored in mothproof containers...  which must be breathable to let any sweat escape...  - so you see it's just easier to see how to store washed fleece!  (Any tips on safe ways to store unwashed fleeces gratefully received though, Philip - I still have loads!  )

It's interesting to hear your opinion that washed fleece is more attractive to moths and/or rots more readily, Philip - I guess if it's not thoroughly dried before storing, but why would it be more likely to spoil if it's been well washed, thoroughly dried and correctly stored?

There was a thread on Ravelry last year asking for people's actual experiences of moths in stored fibre - there seemed to be equally as many firsthand stories of washed and unwashed fibre being infested.  Which led one to the conclusion that correct storage is the most important thing in terms of avoiding moths.

People do talk about grease hardening and making fleece unspinnable, and being much more difficult to wash out once it's hardened - but possibly this applies more to very greasy fleeces, such as Merino, and less so to the Shetlands, Gotlands, Ryelands, etc, that the likes of us are likely to be storing?

And Fleecewife gave me the tip to only try to spin raw fleece when it's really warm - either in the summer (should we ever get one ) or in front of a good fire.  Personally I haven't been at this game long enough yet to experience rock hard grease that won't wash out and won't loosen to allow spinning.

I am still very confused, then, about how and when best to clip - surely if one doesn't clip along the rise then the break is there either in the butt ends of this year's wool if one clips beneath the rise, or in the tips of next year's wool if one clips before any rise?  Plus, other professional shearers have always refused to clip sheep where the wool hasn't risen as it is so very much harder to do and, they tell me, they are more likely to cut the sheep as the clippers won't glide under the wool.  (This in commercial sheep where clipping is being done as a welfare requirement, without any consideration of a handspinner's requirements.)  The only professional blade shearer I know is you, Philip - and I understood you to tell me that you were clipping along the rise, but perhaps I misunderstood?  (Wouldn't be the first time!  )

[Remy]

The lad that comes out to me to shear prefers to do it when it's risen, but then I've only wanted them shorn for welfare reasons not for spinning so I guess he does it when it's easiest for him.  However if I get some good fleeces this year I might have to rethink!

[SingingShearer]

Firstly, in my experience, moths are not drawn to dirty dark moistness! Moths like dry clean fleece such as washed wool, alpaca, angora rabbit and the like. In fact they prefer alpaca to wool.
Washed wool is more likely to rot when damp as the lanolin has been taken out allowing the wool to absorb moisture more readily.

The best way I know to store fleece is hung in a building  in vegetable nets, raw, not washed.
We have fleece stored raw for years that are still good. I would add, always skirt fleeces before storaing as this is where you would get infestations of many things ( including moths drawn to the dirty bits)

Also the lanolin will come out even if it has set it just needs heating up somehow. It will never make a fleece unspinnable, it just takes a bit more work.
It is true that a fleece spins best straight off of the sheep while it still has the body heat but that doesn't mean that it won't spin well after that.
Plus the amount of lanolin in a fleece and the fleece quality differs from sheep to sheep even in the same breed on the same land discussing this in itself could fill at least one book.

I don't have too good a memory but I think that the rise on your sheep was just right for shearing but it wouldn't have made much of a difference anyway, sorry if it was misleading.
The problem with waiting for the rise before shearing and then shearing along the rise is that it is well known that flies will lay eggs on quarter of an inch of wool, about the same length which would be left on, which can be a problem.
If you shear before the wool rises then there isn't a weakness in the staple, also once the sheep has been shorn the wool has no need to rise so it doesn't (most of the time) which means that the wool next year will be just as good.

I cant speak for other shearers but in my experience not wanting to shear before the wool rises is used as an excuse.
To explain what I mean about different equipment to cope in any condition would take a lot of explaining but with the right equipment and experience you can shear any sheep at any time of year without a problem, so long as you are willing. The only difficulty would be in cases where the sheep are very poor to start with, or losing condition. This makes shearing much harder, the fleece will never come off very well and the sheep are more likely to get cut. A good sheep always shears well as long as the right equipment is used.

Thanks,
Philip

[Remy]

Thanks for all the info!