Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough  (Read 15558 times)

Tedshort

  • Joined May 2012
Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« on: March 19, 2013, 01:06:31 pm »
Hello all  I have a small flock of 4 ewes and a tup in northern UK on about 2 acres.
Last few days I have noticed palish sausage like feces covered with slimy mucus, there is a very slight blood colour in the mucus.  Now I think it may be from the tup but not sure.
All of the ewes are in lamb and due any day.  The tup just came here in October and I was told he had been wormed?? The ewes were wormed in summer with Ivomec.  They all look OK considering the wet snowy conditions.  They have all been coughing more so when eating hay or nuts so I just put it down to dry food.  Could I please ask a  few questions.
1. Should I be worried regarding the mucus feces and any idea what it could be.
2. How soon can I worm after the ewes lamb
3. I have only ever used Ivomec (4 years) and know I need alternate any advice as to which wormer.
4. Had a hogget come back with no liver from slaughterhouse last year (1 out of the 4), ant idea why this could be.
Thanks in advance
Ted
2.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 01:23:34 pm by Tedshort »

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 01:25:27 pm »
1) Could be something and nothing - worth having a fecal egg count done and dosing for fluke once lambs are born.


2) You can worm as soon as they have lambed


3) Depends on the result of your egg count - Ivermectin is pretty strong stuff and there is less resistance to that than other wormers. I have little worm resistance on my ground so I use levamisole mostly.


4) Liver was probably condemned due to fluke damage.

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 01:35:01 pm »
Have they been treated with a Flukicide recently?  That could be the cause of the coughing.


No liver back from the slaughterhouse means it was condemned for Liver Fluke.


You can either do it now or after they lamb.  And your choice of product will depend on when you do it.  You might want to use something like Flukiver if doing pre-lambing as this is gentler on the ewes, but doesn't do immature fluke. Or wait until after they lamb and use a Triclabendazole based flukicide.  If you have a severe infestation you will need to repeat the dose too.  How close is "any day now"?  If it really is like within a week then I would wait until they lamb.


Have a look here for product details:  http://www.scops.org.uk/content/Know-Your-Anthelmintics-2012.pdf  (the flukicides are listed under the narrow spectrum products).  It also shows you details about all the different wormers available, and yes you should rotate your wormers - select one with a different chemical in it.  And you will need to read up on the different wormer groups.  The Scops site has plenty of info.


It wuuld be worth speaking to your vet for advise really.  They can do a faecal egg count too to see how bad the problem is.

fsmnutter

  • Joined Oct 2012
  • Fettercairn, Aberdeenshire
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 01:38:09 pm »
  Could I please ask a  few questions.
1. Should I be worried regarding the mucus feces and any idea what it could be.
2. How soon can I worm after the ewes lamb
3. I have only ever used Ivomec (4 years) and know I need alternate any advice as to which wormer.
4. Had a hogget come back with no liver from slaughterhouse last year (1 out of the 4), ant idea why this could be.

Hi Ted, hopefully as a vet, I may be able to help.
1. Firstly regarding the slimy mucus faeces with blood, this could be a sign of a worm, a parasite or a bacteria causing diarrhoea. Coccidia, Campylobacter, Salmonella as well as worms can cause diarrhoea with blood. It may be worth asking your vet about sampling some of these odd droppings to see if they can find out what is causing it, and that way you can find the best treatment.

Coughing could be down to dry food, or it could be a bit of pneumonia, animals can also 'catch the cold' and suffer from respiratory infections when the weather is changeable as it has been! Again, might be worth a chat with your vet as they may need some treatment, but hard to say without having a look at them.

2. Worming is often done as ewes lamb, in large flocks, the easiest time is often when they are penned up with their lambs, just before going out. The bottle of wormer should tell you if it shouldn't be used within a certain time of birthing, but I don't know of any that can't be used pretty much straight away. In terms of preventing resistance, a percentage of sheep should be left unwormed to keep some worms that have never seen a wormer to dilute any that may have resistance on the pasture. With such a small number, if you have one particular ewe that is fit and in good condition that produces a single lamb, that might be the one to leave out.

3. Ivomec is a very useful wormer, and also works against things like sheep scab and lice. It is probably worth chatting to your vets again (sorry, am not trying to plug things, but your local vet will have very good ideas on what resistance there is in the area etc) and looking at testing some faeces for worm eggs. If worm egg counts are low, it is often possible to avoid some of the 'routine' worming, although lambs should generally be wormed for Nematodirus as this worm causes severe disease long before eggs show up. Egg count tests can also be used to check that your wormer is still effective. There is less resistance to Ivomec and that class of wormers as there is to the 'white drenches', but there is still some appearing. Latest I heard is that swapping classes of wormer from year to year doesn't slow down the resistance that much, because having a year off one wormer, the worms don't lose the resistance, so is often best to stick with one type of wormer until there's a problem, and then the others will be effective. If buying in stock in future (such as the ram), it would be a good idea to 'quarantine treat' them. This entails keeping them in away from the others, worming them with a specific type or combination of wormers that don't have much resistance at all, so as to kill all worms they are carrying, and keep them in until all worms have died and stopped producing eggs, then when they go out to pasture, they will not give you any worms.
4. Chances are the liver would not have come back due to fluke. It is fairly common to have a mild fluke infection that doesn't affect the animal too bad, so you don't see any loss of weight etc. Again, can be worth checking whether there is fluke in the area, and treating everything for fluke. British weather is great for leaving damp bits of fields where the snails that carry fluke live, so it is very common.

Hope these bits have helped shed some light
Suzanne

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 01:44:52 pm »
3. Ivomec is a very useful wormer, and also works against things like sheep scab and lice.....


Only in the injectable verson though, unless I am mistaken?

fsmnutter

  • Joined Oct 2012
  • Fettercairn, Aberdeenshire
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 02:08:02 pm »

Only in the injectable verson though, unless I am mistaken?

Ivomec only comes in injectable for sheep, although there are other ivermectin based products.
The pour on type for cattle also works against ectoparasites (lice, mites) although some question their efficacy, as washing off, rubbing off can reduce the active product, but they are licensed for the purpose.
Hope that helps
Suzanne

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2013, 03:20:56 pm »
I was told yesterday, by an animal health products rep, that triclabendozole was not the best flukicide to use if you have advanced cases.  This is because it works in the liver, and if the liver is weakened by an active fluke burden, then it can't process the drug so effectively. 

So if you are treating sheep with symptoms of fluke, use one of the other flukicides.  Use triclabendozole as a routine treatment in sheep not showing symptoms.

She also said that it was very hard to get hold of Flukiver at the moment.  Presumeably because of all the farmers struggling to get on top of unusually heavy fluke problems.

We have heard of a farmer in Lancs getting 600 sheep scanned - only 2 were in lamb. :o
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Tedshort

  • Joined May 2012
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 04:09:57 pm »
Many thanks to all who have replied you have been a great help.  This was my first post on here and am amazed at how quick and helpful the advice came.
I found the link http://www.scops.org.uk/content/Know-Your-Anthelmintics-2012.pdf particularly informative.

Will dose them with a combined fluke/wormer as soon as they have had their lambs a few days and maybe do the tup now as he is the prime suspect and I am just taking someone else's word he was wormed.
I do think the cough is the dry food as it sounds like it is coming from the throat and does not sound like an ill cough.
Many thanks
Ted

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 04:26:33 pm »
I think the current view is to avoid combined wormer/flukicides.  I know you might be saving money but they mean you end up worming or fluking when you don't need to.
Your vet might be able to provide small quantities of the right sort of flukicide and wormer to sort you out in the short term.  I tend to leave a gap of 2 weeks between a flukicide dose and a wormer dose (i.e. dont administer them at the same time), but your vet would be able to advice.

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2013, 04:27:03 pm »
We have heard of a farmer in Lancs getting 600 sheep scanned - only 2 were in lamb. :o


Blimey! God knows what you'd do then....sell half as culls for working capital and build up again?

Tedshort

  • Joined May 2012
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2013, 05:15:44 pm »
Ok so if I used Flukiver after the lambs were born then wait a few weeks then dose with a yellow wormer then another 2 weeks and dose with ivomec would this be ok and would I need to do the lambs aswell ?
Thanks
Ted

Dans

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Spalding
    • Six Oaks
    • Facebook
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2013, 05:24:51 pm »
I've not seen any proof at all that triclabendazole doesn't work just as well when the liver is damaged. Heard it said a lot, but not seen any actual evidence.

That said a closantel based product like flukiver is fine if you've only got adult fluke in your animals. It doesn't hit the young fluke though, so if you have any young fluke in your animals you'll need to dose again once those fluke are in the age range for flukiver.

Wow to the 600 and only 2 in lamb. Did he have fluke? It can be one of the causes of low scanning rates.

Dans
9 sheep, 24 chickens, 3 cats, a toddler and a baby on the way

www.sixoaks.co.uk

www.facebook.com/pg/sixoakssmallholding

www.goodlife.sixoaks.co.uk

colliewoman

  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Pilton
  • Caution! May spontaneously talk rabbits!
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2013, 08:38:26 pm »

Only in the injectable verson though, unless I am mistaken?

Ivomec only comes in injectable for sheep, although there are other ivermectin based products.
The pour on type for cattle also works against ectoparasites (lice, mites) although some question their efficacy, as washing off, rubbing off can reduce the active product, but they are licensed for the purpose.
Hope that helps
Suzanne


 I use oramec. Is this not the same as Ivomec but a drench? 
I thought Ivomec and Ivermectin were the same thing? Am fully prepared and would be delighted to be better informed though :eyelashes:
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf/store/products/oramec-drench#description





We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2013, 08:45:04 pm »
Maybe - thats possibly where I was getting them confused, If the boxes look similar.


But yes, they are both ivermectin. I think molemec is cheaper.

colliewoman

  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Pilton
  • Caution! May spontaneously talk rabbits!
Re: Slimy mucus feces, dry cough
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2013, 09:00:02 pm »
When did they start making molemec in litre bottles????
Thats why I buy the oramec cos it comes in weeny bottles!


Mind you, the bottle I have now I shan't use up before it is out of date (if it isn't already ::) ) so it is at least 2 years old and is only a litre.
I shall have to get more sheep so I don't waste stuff!


I bought 2.5 litres of trichlabendazole a whiles back. I am NEVER gonna get through that. I'm going to find out about sharing medicines. There must be a way to do it without the ministry getting the arse ;D
We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

 

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2024. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS