[Alistair]

Ok, Julie's 6months old, Morris is 4 now, Julie's herding instinct is high, Morris's is also quite high, so now when I call them both in, they don't move because they're both trying to get behind each other to get them to do as they're told, I am not finding ths funny anymore... Any suggestions, I'm thinking of a new command but its instinctual behaviour and its not really wrking

[jaykay]

I'd do some re-call work with them separately for a while, if you can manage it.

One of mine, Skerry, is far more interested in what Skye is doing, than doing what I'm telling her. Fortunately Skye is more interested in me, so he responds and she follows him.

[Alistair]

Cheers, it's what I had in mind, it's all started since Julie went in with the sheep for the first time two weeks ago, I think it's triggered something in her little head and Morris just hasn't got a clue what to do anymore

[colliewoman]

CAll them one at a time maybe?


SOunds silly I know but if mine play me up this does work.
I usually call 'c'mon in you come' and 360 days of the year they will be straight inside.
4 days of the year I have to call 'Red Dog come here', then 'Pilot come here'.


The other day I have to shout 'do I have to beat you you with a big stick?, get in here now or you are going to the pound!!

[happygolucky]

I call my Labs into the house one at a time, by name, it sometimes fails but I can send them back out and they then tend to get it, so keep practising maybe get some one to help and hold one on a lead and call just the other then reverse it, dogs generaly understand after a while but sometimes (like men) have selective hearing, especialy if there is something more interesting.    I now collies are different but they are very clever dogs!!

[Mammyshaz]

I'd advise as Jaykay.  Do work separately.  Any time a dog isn't eager to obey, go a few steps back in the training ( sometimes right back ) to get that willingness to want to listen.  Once that eagerness is back you can quickly build back to where you were before the ignoring set in. 
Doing it with one dog at a time helps them concentrate on you. Once they are where you want them you can work one while the other just watches. Sometimes this makes each dog even more keen to please you. Once they are strong in listening then you can pair them up again.

They'll be falling over each other to listen before you know it   

[Alistair]

Colliewoman, I know that feeling, took me half an hour to get them in this morning, I ended up dragging Morris in

Mammyshaz, they're not ignoring me, well they are in a collie sort if way "I know you want me to do coming in, but I just can't at the moment because I've got something far more important to do, I'll be with you in bit" sort of ignoring, they are I think just trying to herd each other so they end up either going round in circles or just staring each other out to see who moves first, but I'm going to try that, one watching the other work

We did individual recall this morning, which went really well until it was time to stop...

[SallyintNorth]

  collies 

All my dogs have at least two names.  Their own name, and "Two Dogs!"  In theory (and it does usually work) all dogs come a-runnin' when I holler "TwoooooDogs!"

I would start ignoring one dog, Alastair, and giving the other a lot of attention in front of the one you are ignoring.  That should sting the ignored one into trying desperately to get your attention - you would of course reward it with some attention if it gets to you first, but only then.

[Backinwellies]

Collies ... don't you just love  em!!   

[doganjo]

Colliewoman, I know that feeling, took me half an hour to get them in this morning, I ended up dragging Morris in

Mammyshaz, they're not ignoring me, well they are in a collie sort if way "I know you want me to do coming in, but I just can't at the moment because I've got something far more important to do, I'll be with you in bit" sort of ignoring,

Are you sure they aren't Brittany's?    This is typical HPR behaviour, made worse to handle because they MIGHT be on point when I recall them, and if they are they mustn't be taken off it but instead be told to flush.  Sooo I have to go looking for them to do that, and where they hunt can be pretty rough stuff.    :'  I don't need to be any closer than gunrange though so they must then be recalled after flush. So it's the same problem really. I have always recalled my dogs individually by name, not all together. And I make them sit first so they are steady.

Good luck, training one at a time and being consistent is the only way forward.   And one tip I learned way back is never recall or redirect a dog if it is in full flight - teach the 'stop' first to get it's attention.  We have to stop them at distance for out of range retrieves and redirect if necessary - back, left or right, and occasionally forward if they have overshot.

It's all good fun and dogs have to be reminded of the basics regularly. SITN's idea works every time too!

[Alistair]

Cheers you lot, loads of good ideas here, Julie is just amazingly clever, way faster in the mind than any collie I've ever had before, makes Morris look positively average, I feel like I've got a hell of a responsibility to make something of her, I'm just like a proud dad with her, always, most rewarding dog I've ever owned

I've drafted out a training diary for them for the next 4 weeks which is something like..

Monday, 20 mins sheep Julie, 40 mins moz with sheep - separately
Tuesday 20min basic obedience, sit, downs, stays that sort of thing (Julie), ditto moz separately
Wednesday nothing other than normal exercise
Thursday 20min recall Julie, 20 min recall moz, 20min playing together without the other 2 dogs
Friday moz &sheep
Saturday ditto Wednesday
Sunday is fun day, so that'll be chaos then

If I don't write it down it won't happen

SITN - what happens I you get another dog?

[doganjo]

Looks good to me, Alister, but I wouldn't train the youngster for 20 minutes at a time - better two 10 minute sessions.  In fact even Morris might benefit from his being split up too (and you for that matter - 10 minutes is easier to fit into a busy schedule than 20).  The training should be in different places too as dogs brains are spatially linked to actions.  Just a thought.

[SallyintNorth]

SITN - what happens I you get another dog?

It's okay, Alistair - they don't know what "Twodogs" means 

I did, it the early days, when I first had three at a time, try "Every dog", but I found TwoDogs worked better.  They know no different and I don't care what people think if 5 dogs run up when I apparently only asked for 2

[doganjo]

It's okay, Alistair - they don't know what "Twodogs" means 
I did it the early days, when I first had three at a time, try "Every dog", but I found TwoDogs worked better.  They know no different and I don't care what people think if 5 dogs run up when I apparently only asked for 2

[Alistair]

Didn't think of that doganjo.. Cheers

SITN - they're collies bet they can count they're just not telling you and laughing behind your back, that's what mine do, I'm sure of it