[Reg henderson]

Iv been looking at permoculture for growing veg, has anyone on here ever tried it or using it just now? Iv looked up the no dig beds online and seems good if your soil is clay or poor. If anyone is using that system then what do you build it with and where is best to get what you need ? (paper , card, hay , manure and mulch )

[Fleecewife]

There's a difference between 'no dig' and 'permaculture'.   I looked into permaculture a few years ago, but I felt it was good at growing things you don't eat much of, but not good for the staples such as potatoes and other mainstream veg.    In permaculture (please correct me someone if I've got this wrong), land is planted up with several layers - top story trees such as fruit trees, nut trees; next shrubby layer with plants such as raspberries, Jerusalem artichokes; Then a lower story with  things like rhubarb, perennial kale, strawberries, plus productive climbers to go up the trees.  Some people seem to have some veg beds in the system too, but I think it's more that 'no dig' goes hand in hand with permaculture, but either can be used on its own.
I am now heading towards a no dig system, although at the moment I still have too many perennial weeds (which would be a problem in a permaculture system too).
We don't have raised beds, just paths between areas of planting, so we don't use boards or need a great depth of added soil - we are lucky to live on good volcanic soil.  We try to keep weeds at bay by covering the planted areas with black, weed-suppressing fabric, but it does cost and doesn't last long (especially with two terriers which feel the need to check under every bit for rodents  )
 
 
Where we do need extra soil for growing composts etc, we sieve clean soil from our molehills    We have plenty of those.  We also keep livestock so have plenty of manure, although we don't have a source of fallen leaves for leafmould.  If you are buying in manure, be very careful that it is not contaminated with aminopyralid weedkiller, which is applied to pasture to kill dockens, thistles and so on, but persists in animal dung and even rotted manure from animals which have grazed treated pasture - it deforms and kills your crops, especially beans and tomatoes.

[Reg henderson]

There's a difference between 'no dig' and 'permaculture'.   I looked into permaculture a few years ago, but I felt it was good at growing things you don't eat much of, but not good for the staples such as potatoes and other mainstream veg.    In permaculture (please correct me someone if I've got this wrong), land is planted up with several layers - top story trees such as fruit trees, nut trees; next shrubby layer with plants such as raspberries, Jerusalem artichokes; Then a lower story with  things like rhubarb, perennial kale, strawberries, plus productive climbers to go up the trees.  Some people seem to have some veg beds in the system too, but I think it's more that 'no dig' goes hand in hand with permaculture, but either can be used on its own.
I am now heading towards a no dig system, although at the moment I still have too many perennial weeds (which would be a problem in a permaculture system too).
We don't have raised beds, just paths between areas of planting, so we don't use boards or need a great depth of added soil - we are lucky to live on good volcanic soil.  We try to keep weeds at bay by covering the planted areas with black, weed-suppressing fabric, but it does cost and doesn't last long (especially with two terriers which feel the need to check under every bit for rodents  )
 
 
Where we do need extra soil for growing composts etc, we sieve clean soil from our molehills    We have plenty of those.  We also keep livestock so have plenty of manure, although we don't have a source of fallen leaves for leafmould.  If you are buying in manure, be very careful that it is not contaminated with aminopyralid weedkiller, which is applied to pasture to kill dockens, thistles and so on, but persists in animal dung and even rotted manure from animals which have grazed treated pasture - it deforms and kills your crops, especially beans and tomatoes.

I did look at it and on few sites they did say that the no dig is part of a permoculture planting , think I know the weed killers you mentioned ,(aminopyralid) is that the ones they use on pasture to kill the dicotoleadons and don't kill the mono,s as in grass? after reading up on it I tend to think that adding the ingredients to our duck run and let them do the composting and add their own part might work as when I fork over run there is loads of worms and never see any weeds in there. Just need to keep moving the ducks to fresh ground and plant up the old run

[deepinthewoods]

ive got 5 deep beds, a few getting on for 2ft deep, 8ft long 3ft wide, to fill them took loads and loads. i went in the woods and bagged up dozens of sacks of ready made leafmould. then had 5ton of well rotted donkey manure delivered from a rescue, mixed it up and off i went.

i top every bed throughout the year.

i made a load of the goodstuff by chucking bales of straw in the chicken run when the ground was we and just about poached. the straw rotted quickly in the nitrogen rich soil and i just scraped off the top 6inches or so to top up the beds.. that was goooood stuff!!!!  i havent dug the beds since i original dug them. but i do test for compaction. and they still need weeding regularly so the top 4inches gets turned over. particularly if the chickens are let in to clear slugs.

[Reg henderson]

what results do you get deepinthewoods? do you have to feed the veg?

[deepinthewoods]

i do allright. im still learning tho. i put at least 3inch of compost on a season. if i know the compost is hingh nitrogen i put it on the leaf beds etc.

if ive had a gross feeder on a bed, like sweetcorn or cucurbits, ill put on double. but then make a liquid feed from manure soaked in a bin and use that to water them. this is my opinion, but in my experience you cant overfeed with an organic feed. if the plants dont want it, they dont eat it..