[HesterF]

Hi all,

Need advice! My broody has been sitting happily on duck eggs for a week. BUT I've just candled them and they're all infertile  . Cracked one just to be sure and nothing there. She's also not good at getting off to eat and hasn't done a decent poo for three days.

So:

1) Does infertile eggs mean the drake is shooting blanks and I need to replace him ASAP? Or could there be another cause?

2) What's the best thing to do with the hen? Should I try and break her broodiness now? Try and get some  day old ducklings (can't get chicks due to leukosis still hanging over us)? Or give her a fresh set of eggs (but I've only got goose eggs which take longer or more, possibly infertile, duck eggs)?

Nothing seems to run smooth in the world of poultry keeping....

H

[goosepimple]

It's that time of year which always involves sneaking around egg swapping  . 
 
Unlikely she will go for day olds, they're not that daft a lot of the time and she may give them a good peck and kill them.
 
You can also confuse them and they go about in a state for a time and it may kill her eventually.
 
If you take her off she will go mad trying to find her eggs - can't you get some fertile ones from someone nearby and swap when she 'naturally' comes off for a break?  Keep one or two of her own as they will be warm.
 
If you try and take her off completely you will have to 'shock' her out of her present state if she is really broody.  You have to dunk her in a basin of cold water for a minute or two to literally cool her off - don't cover her head, just body, you'd have to hold her obviously.  Sounds barbaric but it does the job and its better for her health in the end than letting her wander around for weeks in a half broody non-eating, hormonal state.
 
Don't worry about her lack of coming off for a break - I've never taken them off - just leave the door open and food and water nearby but not too near to attract rats.  She'll do what she feels is right for her and she would rather you didn't interfere - really don't fuss, just let her get on with it.  She will happily sit over her time, so a week isn't much to worry about. 
 
I'd try getting fertilised eggs under her, if she's really broody she'll sit on just about anything. 
 
I used to keep some buttered couscous to give along with grain if I saw any of my girls on a break, it gives them an incentive to come off 
 
Good luck.

[chrismahon]

Please don't put her in cold water Hester -heart attack very likely! Swap eggs for fertile ones and don't write off your drake yet. Test the blastoderm when the weather improves. Alternatively put her in a cage off the ground so she can't settle. Loads of advice on breaking a broody on the internet -try www.poultrykeeperforum.com.

[goosepimple]

Never thought of that chris, it was something I picked off a very old River Cottage programme.

[HesterF]

Thanks both! I put a second set of duck eggs under her on Saturday (and physically the drake has been doing his darndest - rape springs to mind - so hopefully he's managed something). I am still worried about her though. She does get off the eggs herself now - she gives herself away by tipping over the water - normally early morning before I get to her. But she has bad diarrhoea - really completely liquid and stinky as hell. I've been trying to put a greater range of food in there so maybe that will help but any advice on top foods for broodies?

I don't think I could plunge her into water - that does sound quite dramatic. I've ordered a dog cage thing that I can use for ducklings/goslings (also just loaded the incubator) so if these eggs also turn out to be infertile, I might have to use that as an antibroody pen (or transfer some fom the incubator but that adds even more time to how long she'll be sitting for). What's the longest a broody has sat for?

  the eggs she's got now turn out to be OK. I'm just happy I've got her in the house at the moment - I hate to think of her shivering away outside still.

H

[goosepimple]

They normally have a massive poo or something as you've described - I'd make sure you get a wee bit Flubanvet or other wormer in her food as their immune system gets a bit vulnerable at this time and you want her to stay healthy.  Sunflower seeds are very popular with our hennies.  Good luck.  Oh, just in case you don't know (apologies if you do), don't feed chick crumbs to ducklings, you might kill them, they should have their own make of crumbs.

[mojocafa]

Goose pimple-I have call duck eggs in the incubator, what do you recommend I feed them, any suggestions welcome cheers mojo

[Marches Farmer]

We raised ducklings last year starting off with turkey crumbs, which don't have an anti-coccidiostat added.

[goosepimple]

Oh well there's a good tip from Marches. 
 
We have Muscovy, I feed the ducklings on wholemeal breadcrumbs in milk (goats or cows, whatever I have) for the first couple of weeks, it helps get them started and gives them the protein they need.  They love it for the rest of their lives though, just can't get enough of it, so you have to watch you don't overstuff them with bread.  I ususally mix in the duckling crumbs with a reduced bread mixture by week 3 and by week 4 it's crumbs only much to their disappointment.  Mix in some dried breadcrumbs (I magimix to make them small) if they're not taking the duckling crumbs, or put some milk on the dry crumbs.
 
Give them a good start to get them up and about, they are such a little scrap of life at newborn and need all the help they can get, unlikely they'll start eating anything meaningful for the first few days just living off their egg sack which is normal.
 
Call ducks are just great I wish we could have some but we have geese and they kill call ducks sometimes during their mad phase in spring.  All the best. 

[HesterF]

A&P do a specialist starter crumb for waterfowl too. Only problem is that it comes in 20kg bags which is a bit bigger than a few ducklings would need, I imagine. I've not ordered any yet, it feels like tempting fate - a bit like announcing a pregnancy at week 5! I think you can use any unmedicated chick crumbs as well, can't you?

I've just bought a pot of chicken treats to tempt my broody and she did seem to eat more today. Might see if can get some worming stuff from the vet to dose her too - she's had Flubenvet pellets a couple of months ago but we know we have an ongoing problem. Comb has certainly got paler too but I think that's normal?

H

[goosepimple]

Yes, she'll look a bit thin and bedraggled with feathers plucked from her breast area to get closer to the eggs, a bit of a mess, and then she'll moult after she's had them which makes her look even worse, but they recover soon after thankfully.  If you've ever had kids yourself you'll know it takes a lot out of you and takes a bit of time and tlc to get back on your feet again. 

[HesterF]

OK, to add to her woes, I think she's got red mite which is a pain in the butt (for her!). I was just checking her over today and noticed some scurrying red dots near her vent  . She's in a plastic dog crate at the moment (which has never had poultry in before except to move them and then I've scrubbed it out afterwards) and I dusted her with diatom powder before she started sitting so I'm so annoyed. I've dusted her again (hope that's not bad - it says to dust them first thing so the excess is shaken off before roosting which clearly doesn't apply to her) and moved her to a fresh crate with fresh bedding (and lots more of the powder). I've called the vet to get some oral worming meds and he's said to try and get hold of some permethrin which actually kills the mites rather than just encouraging them to move elsewhere so I'll be googling that (any ideas where to go?).

Got to scrub the main hen house too - that's also been routinely treated even though it's only been used since September so through the cold month, goodness only knows what'll happen once the warm weather comes. Think I might be getting hold of some creosote soon.

Didn't realise keeping chickens would be soooo complex!

H

[chrismahon]

Hi Hester. The scurrying red mites around her vent sound like Northern Fowl mite, not Red mite. The vent is the target area for NFM and they eat under the skin to feed on the flesh so you will see scabs and dust (poo) at the base of the feathers. They are half the size of RM which leave the host during the day. An effective treatment for NFM is Frontline spray applied on the skin at a maximum dosage of 1.5mL per Kg bodyweight, or less and we have been successful with only 0.5mL. The small sprayer dispenses 0.5 per squirt, the large bottle (with the large blue nozzle) dispenses 1.5 per squirt. Think you need to examine her more closely Hester.

[HesterF]

Ah, that would make sense - I just thought they were on her because she was sitting still but they were tiny (never seen red mite so not sure of the scale). I've got some Frontline combo for the cats, is that the same? It's 0.5ml and suitable for cats over 1kg (and she's over 2kg) -active ingredients fipronil and methopren.

Thanks for the help,

Hester

[HesterF]

Chris, thanks sooo much for the tip. On closer examination I discovered clusters of eggs too so she also had lice  I Frontlined her with the cat stuff and plucked the feathers which had the biggest clusters. Also checked the others (well except the cockerel, he's a two man job at the moment) today and they all had lice too - I thought I'd have spotted them but they were all underneath the vent, buried deep under the fluff so you really had to look carefully. I've sprayed them all with a permethrin based spray which I believe should kill all the lice and mites (vet advised it was more useful than the the normal poultry powder which just encourages the mites and lice to move). No eggs for a few days though.

I couldn't see any evidence of red mite when I cleaned out the house but I'll spray it (again) whenever the sun shines long enough to dry it out before bed time (or once I've got an alternative house set up).

I think I'm working my way through the list of 'what could go wrong?'. In six months, they've had worms, parasites, mites, lice, coccidiosis and avian leukosis. I'll have to look on it as a steep but valuable learning curve. Meantime, should I be checking the ducks and geese for any of these? They're in the same run/free range environment but separate houses. I really don't fancy examining the gander's vent at the moment - I suspect that would be a six man job!

Thanks all for any advice!

Hester