[Templelands]

After the traumatic loss of our heifer calf yesterday we have managed to source a 4 week old limousin orphaned bull calf.


We were advised to skin the dead calf and pop that on the orphan which we have done. Our cow is having none of it, she's a horned Shetland and has given him some hefty buts.


We tied her up and have covered him in sugar beat, her dung round his back legs - but hes not trying to feed and she is just getting stressed.


The farmer we bought the calf from said he probably wouldn't feed today as he has had his fill, so we have given up for the night. He is in one part of the stable, she is in the other half, they cant see or get to each other but they can smell and hear each other.


Is it a case of just perseverance? Any other advice out there?


Thanks 

[shep53]

Its a battle of wills now, pity the calf wasn't hungry or things could have been totally different . try again tomorrow , give the cow food and restrain her ,don't you get stressed or this will be felt by the cow, keep calm. It may all go smoothly first time as they may have  called to each other overnight and the calf will be hungry, if not keep trying again , but don't let her knock him about

[SallyintNorth]

Tie the cow up with cake to keep her occupied and let the calf feed.  Don't allow the cow to kick the calf but don't get agitated.  If she is kicking, teach the calf to come in from behind to the rear teats, the cow is more likely to let it get away with that.  The calf will learn very quickly when it is safe to come in to feed, and where to latch on.

Don't be worried if you have to do this twice a day for a week or more.  After a few days, see if you can let the calf swing into its natural suckling position, with its bottom under the cow's nose.  As his poo and pee start to smell of her milk, she will gradually come around to thinking this is her calf.

As she is bereaved she will probably accept him sooner than this, but she is likely to accept him within a week or two anyway, because he will smell like her calf by then.  But she has to be able to smell his backside or she doesn't get that message.  (Ask me how I know )

Good luck

[sokel]

OK Sally I have to ask   HOW DO YOU KNOW 

[Templelands]

Thanks Sally. The cow is awkward but she's staying calm while we spray milk into the calfs face. The problem is the calfs been fed on an auto feeder with nipples facing out and he's forgot how to latch on to a normal nipple. He's too big to just bend down. Any thoughts?


Nightmare.

[SallyintNorth]

OK Sally I have to ask   HOW DO YOU KNOW 

There's always one, ain't there... 

Ok, you did ask for it.

I set calves on my Jerseys.  So far, Hillie has taken every set on, let it suckle and even mothered and cared for it like her own.  She never loves the one that partners her actual own calf each lactation - she wouldn't see it drown in a ditch, but that one doesn't get the love the others do once her own calf is weaned.  But once her own calf is weaned, she takes every newcomer and bonds with it as though it were her own; even two at once.  It takes a week or two each time, but it always happens.  All but the very last one last lactation.  By now the cattle were in their winter housing, and Hillie was in a group where I could feed her through a locking neck yoke, next to an opening door.  It was very easy to feed her there, lock the yoke, open the door and bring the calf up to her rear end.  Every so often I would let the calf stay with her, expecting that at around 10 days, she would take to it, as she always does.  But she never did.  I realised that in the configuration I was using, she couldn't see or smell the calf's backside as it fed, so the bond was never made.  Once I realised, I started bringing the calf across in front of her so she could get at it, but it wasn't the same as having them together in the stall in the byre, where I milk and where I usually set the calves on.  Lesson learned.

[Templelands]

We've just tried again but given up as the stress was getting to us all. She keeps trying to butt the little man and as she's horned we want to avoid that....


The mum is such a sweet natured thing we were hoping this would be easier.

[SallyintNorth]

Thanks Sally. The cow is awkward but she's staying calm while we spray milk into the calfs face. The problem is the calfs been fed on an auto feeder with nipples facing out and he's forgot how to latch on to a normal nipple. He's too big to just bend down. Any thoughts?


Nightmare.

Oh, yes, that is a nightmare.

Will he suck on your fingers?  If so, it's a matter of patience, leading him to the teat with your fingers in his mouth, over and over again.  BH is brilliant at it, never shows the calf the frustration one inevitably feels! 

If he doesn't get the idea quite soon, can you feed him from a bottle and get him used to a (nearly) vertical, and lower down teat by how you hold the bottle for him?  Get him suckling, then slowly tip the bottle so it's more vertical, pull it out of his mouth and gradually make him get back on it as it is more and more vertical, then bring it lower and lower so he starts to bring his head down and up onto it as he will need to with the cow.  Then each feed, start with your fingers in his mouth and try to lead him onto the cow; if he won't, let him onto the bottle but start to insist he gets onto it vertically and lower down, lead him to the udder with the bottle in his mouth, try to slip his mouth onto one of her teats.

Not an easy task, but hopefully he will get the idea in time.  It will help to keep him a little bit hungry too - just give him enough each feed to iron out the hollow sides, but never let him get a nice plump belly. 

  for you!

[Templelands]

Hi Sally
Thanks for your help today, we have completed phase 2 of the "adopt a calf 2013" stressathon. Lol. I've now got Sweetheart "surrogate mum" and Mason McMoomoo in the same stall with a 12 foot field gate secured between them.  I milked sweetheart and got about a litre or so off her to feed to him, which he took gladly.  Trying to get the little man to go down and under for it is proving a little harder than I expected but ill get there. I've left them both to defrazzle as my poor sweetheart is getting quite stressed out at the whole thing.  Oh, also, he done a wee while I was soothing sweetheart so (euw btw) I cupped my hands under and offered it to her which she took a little.  I then rubbed some of it around her mouth so she could smell it.  Fingers crossed for the evening feed!!


Thanks again
Andy 

[Rosemary]

Just try and hold on to the fact that neither of them are doing it to annoy you, even if it feels like they are. I'm sure with patience and persistance, it'll all come together 

[VSS]

Thanks Sally. The cow is awkward but she's staying calm while we spray milk into the calfs face. The problem is the calfs been fed on an auto feeder with nipples facing out and he's forgot how to latch on to a normal nipple. He's too big to just bend down. Any thoughts?


Nightmare.

For future reference (which hopefully you won't need) you might find it easier if you can get a much younger calf, that has either been on a cow (even dairy farms usually leave the calf with the cow for four days) or one that has been on a bottle. It makes the fostering process much easier for the cow and the calf if you are substituting like with like. A newborn for a one month old is going to be a slow job - I would never attempt it with a sheep!

[Templelands]

We struggled to find any orphan calf. The one we did get was a stroke of luck and we had to take what we could when it was offered.


However, we know these things take time, but we have adapted their stall to be a crush as well as a room for two with a partition. Managed to get 1ltr of milk down his throat today and after leaving them alone for the day, watched the cow lick him over through the partition. Taking it slow, but will see if he's hungry enough to feed himself tomorrow.

[Templelands]

Well mother seems to have accepted him. He fed himself on all four teats while mother licked him. What a relief. Thanks for the advice, and Sally thanks for the telephone call!

[SallyintNorth]

That is absolutely brilliant news, well done you two 

And only now will I tell you that we thought you had your work cut out with an older calf that wasn't used to suckling - and a Limi at that.      No point telling you that yesterday, you needed to have the confidence to keep trying.

Respect.

[Rosemary]

Well done for hanging in there  I hope we never have to do it - but if we do, you'll be an great example for us