[Orinoco]

Hi

We bought a smallholding grade 2 listed with planning already for 5 holiday let conversions, the deceased previous owner didn't comply with the approved plans and there is an enforcement notice on the work, so we are ripping out nearly everything done so far (which was alot) to put windows and doors back in the right places and put the correct roof tiles on etc.

I am not sure the plans done originally are that good and would like an opinion on

- all  on-suites with no shared loo
- open plan kitchen living space, with no window in kitchen space for air flow
- one pane windows hung from the top

Also as we are at the beginning again, I am looking for ideas on things we can incorporate in the building stage that would help with letting appeal, quirky, novel bits or just things that improve star ratings.

Its all new to us and as we were not involved in producing the original plans and have just moved in, we feel things are having to happen before we have got a grasp of what we want from the build.

Would love to hear from any one with holiday lets, with what they have done that works well and maybe what they would have done if they were to do it again.

Thanks in advance

K

[Fowgill Farm]

Get somebody qualified ie an architect or a local reputable builder (get a recommendation rather than yellow pages) to take a look at the plans some of the things you mention are against modern building regs, are the original plans pre 2005? and were they drafted professionally?
A new pair of eyes may give you some ideas they haven't thought of. Then take it from there. Doing this will cost some money for the advice but worth it in the long run.
HTH
mandy
 

[Marches Farmer]

How many bedrooms per let?  If you have 5 similar size units then you are, to some extent, competing with yourself - better to have varying sizes.  The industry is moving towards 1 bathroom per bedroom (not necessarily en suite).  Contact VisitBritain and they'll send you all the bumph on what you need to have for 4* and 5*, which is where you can ask a good letting price.  If you have a USP (unique selling point) flog it to death!  We're a rare breeds farm with just one cottage, so that's our thing.  5 units with children running around could be like holidaying on a new housing estate.  Scour auction room general sales and architectural merchants for quirky pieces so it doesn't look like a show home, and avoid the hotel suppliers "country cottage no. 34" too co-ordinated look.  We're with Premier Cottages' owners co-operative - have a look at their website for loads of really interesting properties.

[Orinoco]

Hi

Thanks, some good ideas (planning and work commenced pre 2005 I believe).

Just seems soo daunting at the moment, but once I have a plan it will be fine.

Ta

K

[HesterF]

If it commenced before 2005, I guess you might have to go through planning all over again? Don't you have five years to complete the work? Maybe it's five years to commence the work? I'd have thought you'd need a building reg guy to help out. You can get independent ones rather than having to use the local authority ones and that sounds like it might help.

I think En suite depends on how many bedrooms you have in the holiday cottage. We're just going through planning for one holiday cottage which will have one big bedroom and a sleeping loft. I insisted we have a decent bathroom - with a  bath - at the expense of the kitchen because I won't rent a holiday cottage when we go away without a bath! But it won't be en suite because we didn't think that was necessary - at most it'll be two adults and two children who stay so they can share a bathroom(oh, and there wouldn't be room for an ensuite anyway).

As for open plan, I'd say it's preferable to have an open plan kitchen/living room because you often don't cook that much on holiday so it means you can have a bigger living area and if you do cook, you can chat while you're doing it.

No idea about windows - if it's listed in it's own right, you'll have to comply with listed building requirements.

I spoke to our local rep from English Country Cottages (part of the Hoseason group) and she was great with helpful pointers. She said that one of the biggest single selling point for a holiday cottage was (a little oddly) a woodburner so if you can fit one in, it's worth having (and probably extends the season of your letting potential - people imagine cosying up after autumn and winter walks). Think about your heating system too. We're just looking (again) at pellet fired boilers because the government incentives (RHI) for biofuels on commercial premises (which you'd qualify for) mean they pay back really quickly and you continue to get grants for 20 years making heating much, much cheaper. I'm also yo-yoing between underfloor heating (modern but might be set wrongly by renters) and radiators (immediate heat, easy to understand but might date in a few years). Currently going with underfloor heating but it might change tomorrow.

We also talked about who our market was, which was helpful. I'd imagined that we'd be targetting the family market - we have three small children of our own so we have the usual garden stuff for them plus acres of safe land for them to explore, animals to play with (or now geese to run away from), pretty close to beaches and family fun stuff. But the rep pointed out that if you target families, you limit your season to school holidays (or a few families with preschoolers). She said the single biggest market for holiday cottages is couples. So I've relaxed a lot more about the tiny kitchen and we'll concentrate on having one majorly lovely bedroom plus a cosy sleeping loft if families do decide to chance us. I still have a slight worry about romantic couples being disturbed by our noisy trio but we'll have to cope with that one somehow.

The other thing we've debated is whether to try and market it ourselves, go with a smaller company at a lower cut or with a big company who take a bigger cut (20% plus). Doing the sums, if a bigger company can get 30 to 40 weeks occupancy, it makes loads more sense to pay their cut than a smaller company that gets you 20 weeks. So I think we'll start with a big company and see how it goes and move to a smaller company if the occupancy is not great anyway with the big one or if we build enough of a network to market it ourselves.

If you give one of the big companies a ring, they'd probably be happy to send a rep out who can talk it all through with you.

Have fun sorting it all out!

Hester

[lachlanandmarcus]

Hester currently there is no end date in planning permission for finishing the work, only that you have to start it (substantially start it) within the stated period which may be 5 years (or now where we are, 3 years).
Where they get you tho is that if you need building regs warrant (as substantial works will) then the works have to be completed within its 3 year period (altho you can renew a couple of times for a year so in total you get 5 years). This is because they want buildings built to the latest regs spec which keep changing and they get reviewed every 5 years. Trouble is, the warrant is based on a percentage of the estimated costs of the work (rip off) so is MUCH more expensive than the PP app.
If you go over the 5 years (or 3 years if the warrant wasnt renewed twice) then you can still do the work but will not be able to get a formal Cert of Completion - instead you can get a Letter of Comfort which basically says they have inspected and cant find anything they would take action on.

[Fowgill Farm]

Also don't forget disability, building regs have been substantially tightened regarding disabled access even on domestic properties. I think you need to talk the plans thro you have with a suitably qualifed person. Rules in Scotland and England may also vary and also from planning dept to palnning dept   they all seem to have their own interrpretation of the rules.
mandy
ps think goosepimple on here is an architect? send her a pm.

[Old Shep]

As a couple we have 2 to 3 cottage holidays per year, with dogs.  We don't need a bathroom with each bedroom because there is only 2 of us.  We like an open fire, somewhere like the kitchen or hallway which can be closed off with doors for the dogs to sleep (so they don't get on the furniture) an enclosed garden and a nice view.  Even on rainy days if you have a nice low window or french windows looking out on some bird feeders and a good book, you can spend happy days! Oh and somewhere to dry wet coats and put your wellies! 

[HesterF]

Oooh Shep - good point about needing somewhere for the dogs to go without being on the furniture. Must think that one over. Also reminded me to say that we're changing another outhouse into a utility room - mostly for us but the renters will have access to the boot room area which will include a doggy shower, somewhere to hang coats/leave mucky boots/dry wet stuff plus washing machine and tumble dryer. According to the star ratings, if you want to be a five star cottage, you have to have washing facilities (amongst other things).

H

[Orinoco]

Thanks all

My daughter is disabled (although not physically) she has severe epilepsy and learning difficulties and I know there is a market for this group of disabled young people as well as physically disabled and I am trying to provide somethng for both, i.e. one bedroom and bathroom on the same level as the living space, but this is proving a little challenging as we are on a slight slope and possibly one wet room and one bathroom.

I have thought about the under floor heating but in some rooms it causes problems with the floor/ceiling height so I wondered if you could mix and match under floor with radiators.

Not thought about dogs, conservation man is making us take down the little walled gardens that had been built with each holiday let and the plans that the previous owner had done (but didn't comply with) have the door going straight into the living room (open plan) this maybe why he did some of the things he did, he changed one of the bedrooms into a seperate kitchen with big french doors into the living space and built an upstairs bedroom (but in a single story building with a truss breaking the room in two and not complying with building regs meant we had to take it down, there was also an upstairs balconied area with loft ladders but the building regs guy said there was no emergency door/window so we had to take that down as well.

An architect has quoted us £2,500 to re-do the whole thing but that’s the value of the roof tiles we have to change and as we have plans that have already been passed we were thinking about working with them for 2 of the holiday lets (the smaller ones)  and getting them finished then re-negotiating the price for drawings for the Granary.

In theory we currently do not have planning permission until we comply with the enforcement notice, once we have brought it back in line, the planning permission is re-instated.

I think the next plan is to get the building regs man back and speak to a marketing agent, any ideas which is the most likely to come to East Yorkshire to give us some advice?

All fab info so far

K

PS En-suite / on-suite  = bad day, mental block ta for correcting.

[jaykay]

What I used to look for in a holiday let is somewhere that my dogs can be safely let out in the morning, so I don't have to get up, get dressed and take them out first thing. I can just let them into a secure garden and go and make myself a coffee in my pyjamas.

Then I wanted a boot room where the dogs could go when muddy, so I didn't have to stress about the cottage and mud, and ideally wooden and tiled floors in the main living areas, maybe with rugs (which I would take up when we arrived and put back down when we left) so as not to worry about dogs, kids/men forgetting to take off their boots.

One ensuite is nice for the parents, a family bathroom as well for the kids and for nipping to the loo during the day without needing to go through the bedroom.

[Fowgill Farm]

An architect has quoted us £2,500 to re-do the whole thing

he's taking a lend get another price!
mandy

[Orinoco]

Hi

As we have already got planning, and there are just a few minor bits to change on the first two, I decided to have a look to see what CAD packages there are out there and found a cheap one which I am just going through the tutorial on a 30 day trial version at the moment.

If I can work it out it will make it much easier for me to move walls around/ layouts to try ideas that I come up with rather than keep having to ask someone else and wait for them to cotton on to what I want.

Its TurboCAD 17 if anyone else fancies a play  http://www.turbocad.co.uk/trial.html?pid=12-152864  and if you work out how to use it then its coffee at yours.

K

[goosepimple]

He's not Fowgill, that is reasonable (I'm an architect).  The planning process isn't always easy and there can be a lot going on behind the scenes in order to get a building right and standing and ticked off, don't underestimate.  Local authorities appreciate and take note when someone gets professional help and it does make the whole process easier in the long run. 
 
Even a 2 hour consultation with an architect can make such a difference to your own vision of what can be done and will suggest things you never even thought of and can stop you from making mistakes.  Employ a chartered architect, not an 'architectural designer' who does not have design training.  Designing does not just cover how 'nice' it looks, it's about designing the most efficient way of building it and how your drainage etc all works so you don't get any eyesores. 
 
We see buildings and new houses all the time which we can tell immediately if an architect was involved or not, it is that obvious.  It's a huge % of people who new build and then change something about it in the first 3 years because it doesn't work for them.  You're making a huge investment, get it right.

[deepinthewoods]

definitely agree.