[benkt]

To avoid further derailing another thread, I thought I'd ask this in a whole thread of its own as I'm still wondering what to do.
So, how many girls do you have to have before its worth getting a billy?
Or perhaps I should ask - how many goats did you have when you got your first billy?


Does anyone have figures on what it costs to feed/keep a billy for a year? What's the going range for stud fees? Will studs generally take several girls at a time or would I have to account for a trip per goat? How much hassle is keeping a billy versus finding suitable studs, sponging the girls and arranging their trips away? Keeping a billy would mean I get to run a closed herd - is there much benefit to this in goats in terms of disease control etc. - would I still CAE test, for example?


So many questions - any and all input very much welcome!

[Hatty]

Hi 
I have 4 girls and 1 billy, not planned that way it sort of just happened
Bought 2 girls, one of them would not stand for the billys we tried to mate her with, we tried 4 different ones with the help of very experienced goat keepers she wasn't having any of it (or them!) last spring I sort of acquired 3 kids    one of which was a billy Cedric, the goat who wouldn't stand adopted him fed him even though she hadnt kidded for 2 years, she has stood for him but we're not sure if she is in kid. he is beautiful and a bit smelly lol but I wouldn't be without him

[Anke]

Mmmmh.. how long is a piece if string...
 
So this is my personal opinion.
 
I have 10 female goats - 3 last years kids and 7 adults. 5 of them are in kid, two running through to provide milk for us in the winter.  I do not keep a billy. I am considering keeping a GG male of my older GG girl intact this year if she kids sccessfully, BUT only because she was AI-ed with the last (but one) straw of this particular male and it is a linebreeding. I will not keep (for my own use) any BT males I may have (entire that is, they will be castrated and reared for meat). Even though I think they would make good boys for anyone interested in getting their milk production up a bit. I travel about 250 miles round trip to get my BT's mated... I am mad (I know).
 
I think with only three females you would be better off selecting a nearby pedigree home (with maybe two different males) , agree what days would be suitable for you to bring your girls, count back 14 days and sponge. Take sponge out on day 12, and they will be in season on day 14. If you are a bit unsure about sponging, your vet will do it. If you are a bit early in the season a PMSG injection will make sure that they definitely come into season, but PMSG costs 40quid a bottle and it stays fresh only a short time, so you would need to get a whole one for your 3 girls.
 
If you keepp a male all year round and are milking the females, he would have to be kept quite separate form them, so would need a friend of his own (castrated best). Feed costs throughout the year not too high, but coming up to breeding season he would need some protein etc to build him up. He will stink the place down - if you have the general public about regulalrly that may be a serious problem. He will need STRONG housing, and preferably some grazing he can go out on too. If you were to offer his services it would be best if you had a separate area approved by AH to make sure you don't enter into standstill every time there are some girls coming, especially if they only come for the day.
If you take in visiting goats you boy would still need CAE testing, ideally your nannies will too, as you would stand a better chance of selling offspring from CAE negative goats. For example if I were to buy in a goat I would insist on a vaild CAE certificate.
 
Unless your girls are BGS registered and you are keen on breeding pure, ANY good male (with some milk figures behind him) will give you kids that should be good milkers in due course, but of course any male kid would realistically only be good for curry (and very good the curry is too!).
 
Again that is only my personal way of looking at it, others may disagree.

[sokel]

We have never had a billy of our own, always gone out to show peoples in the past. We started with Boers last year and because we where offered a Billy and because we now have 10 Nanny's (Boers and Toggs ) we decided the time was right as we are quite often snowed in throught the winter and cant get them out
Its the best decission we ever made, William is Gorgeous, loves everyone and so gentle. Touch wood he has so far not developed the billy smell even though he has covered several nanny's but if/when he does we will work around it

[Dogwalker]

Last year my three dairy nannies went to tizaala's for a month's holiday.
This year I hired in an angora stud buck who came and stayed for nearly three months for five angora does and two dairy nannies.  He was very easy to manage and smelly on and off as the girls came into season but didn't cause any problem with tainted milk even when he stayed in the goatshed overnight to persuade him not to be racist.

[benkt]

Wow, thanks for these responses - I must say I'm surprised at their being so few billies out there. It will be a relief to OH if I  can be talked out of getting one for sure!

[Hatty]

The other problem with our area Benkt, as I think your not far from me, is there are not may goat keepers so it's not as easy as it is in Scotland or the South to find a good Stud Billy.

[Anke]

The other problem with our area Benkt, as I think your not far from me, is there are not may goat keepers so it's not as easy as it is in Scotland or the South to find a good Stud Billy.

No billies around here in the Scottish Borders either - I travel all the way up to Dundee or across to Dumfriesshire... but I am only 35 miles from the leading AI centre in UK!! 

[Hatty]

when I asked at or local animal health about other goat keepers in our area they laughed, could only tell me of 1 who kept a wither as a pet


We dont have hardly any dairy herds either I've been trying for 2 years to get dairynuts to feed mine and can't get them for love nor money Anke


Benkt maybe won't have the same problems, but he's not far from me, I do a 40 mile round trip once a month to buy feed, same again in a different direction to get small bale hay about the only thing I can get local is straw and thats only because I have big bales delivered

[kja]

when I asked at or local animal health about other goat keepers in our area they laughed, could only tell me of 1 who kept a wither as a pet


We don't have hardly any dairy herds either I've been trying for 2 years to get dairynuts to feed mine and can't get them for love nor money Anke


Benkt maybe won't have the same problems, but he's not far from me, I do a 40 mile round trip once a month to buy feed, same again in a different direction to get small bale hay about the only thing I can get local is straw and thats only because I have big bales delivered

hatty if your not far from benkt where are you ? we are not far from him either my parents have a dairy show herd. and know of more breeders around here admittedly no where near as many people keep goats now to their early show days in the 70's but there are still a few of them.

[Dogwalker]

I think goat keepers must be very private people, took me ages to find any near me but there's actually quite a few.
 
Have you tried asking the local vets, or in the health food/alternative type shops?

[Hatty]

I found quite a few eventually but in neighboring county's but it wasn't easy, Im in s.yorks kja
i found the same dogwalker and i understand why, especially in our area.

[kja]

goat breeders are well down to what they were. the other day mum came across the exhibitor list for cambs male show 1983 8o exhibitors were booked in nowadays you are lucky to get into double figures for the same show.

[Mossyoak]

I know the feeling about finding a male i ran round in circles last year looking for one, seems to be very difficult in some areas of the country depending on what breed your looking for too. I'd say there is no hard and fast rules for when its justifiable to keep a billy, just the extra costs, health testing and space he needs as well as the offensive smell for part of the year are the things to consider ! I only purchased a BT male late last year as he was from the show lines i wanted and had the milk figures behind him and we have the means to keep him. I had to make sure he was CAE tested as my girls are, and he was only a year and half old yet his crop of kids with his previous owners were very nice indeed even though they are not interested in showing. Looking to show him this year too as it seems a waste not to, he's very gentle and fits in here very well!
On the feeding side we are lucky to be cattle dairy farmers as well so feed is not hard to source and we can keep it as we use large quantities of everything so its cheaper in the long run .

[firemansam]

We need a stud list.........for the goats I mean

I have a pygmy billy not reg if anyone near Staffs is looking