[colliewoman]

I have a theory, unfortunately I have no hard evidence to back it up.....
Do your sheep have access to the hedges or rougher ground?


I ask because Goose Grass/ Cleavers/ Sticky Willy/ Gallium Aperine grows in such places, hasn't died back completely this year and is one of the highest copper containing plants....


Indeed it is often sold as a supplement for animals as is a good source of copper amongst other things

[goosepimple]

Thanks CW, there's only gorse in there and they leave that alone and it's very stoney ground otherwise, I'm going to keep them all just now and see how they get on, any further deaths this year and we'll have to move them on.  Apart from the copper thing they are great sheep, very easy to handle friendly pretty wee things.

[kanisha]

Is there a way to measure their copper levels?

[goosepimple]

Hmmm, that's a good point - I must ask that one, thanks for that.
 
Sure I must have done an experiment in 5th year chemistry once upon a time ... 

[SallyintNorth]

The vet can get minerals and vitamins, including copper, levels tested in their blood - probably a good idea.  Hopefully it might show up (a) if the remaining sheep have elevated copper levels and (b) if there's anything else odd that could account for unusual metabolism of copper.

One thing worth mentioning is that copper damage in susceptible sheep is cumulative...  builds up over time, so younger sheep could appear fine but problems are building for the future.  Also, I can't remember when you got these sheep goosepimple, but the groundwork for any current problems could have occured before they came to you?

[goosepimple]

Thanks Sally, yes they just came here only 7.5 months ago and both from owners who appeared to be doing it by the book also, would be nice to pass the buck but who knows. Actually come to think this particular ewe had 2 previous owners...? You would think anyone breeding them would be particular considering their history as a breed.
 
I am aware of the cumulative effect of copper, all the food is below the recommended levels for NRs which they get extremely little of anyway and they have their own specially made tub licks, ground is all below acidity level after re-testing last weekend, so perhaps the only option is a blood test. I have lots of info from the NR Soc so working with that as the manual.  Blood tests are more expense, but it's a responsibility and that ususally involves expense doesn't it.  Think I'll also find out what the average life expectancy is for an NR - I get the feeling it won't be high. 
 
Vet thinks I should stick to a less complicated breed and RBST said before I got them that they can have problems and can be a bit fragile.  If they can die from the background copper content in dried grass then I assume they a rare for a reason.  Pity, they are very easy otherwise.