[twizzel]

We are planning on buying 3 or 4 weaners at market at the end of the month to finish and put in the freezer. Can anyone tell me what kind of hard feed they can have? I know it's 1lb of hard feed per month of age up to 6mths, what can this hard feed consist of? Obviously sow/weaner nuts (which is best?), can they eat rolled barley, sugarbeet etc?
We will supplement with fruit and veg (live near to a wholesaler who has seconds) which obviously won't go near the kitchen just after a bit of advice on hard feed really please...

[HappyHippy]

If it's possible to talk to the seller at the market ask what they've been getting and try to get a bag of the same to allow you to change feeds gradually. A sudden change from one feed to another could cause them to scour - buying from a breeder avoids this  usually you will be given (or can buy) some of the feed they've been getting.
But don't get too hung up on all the different feeds - they're essentially the same thing just with slight differences in protien levels and size of pellet. We feed sow rolls with a protien content of 18% - they are bigger in size than weaner feed but the protien is about the same (and even teeny Kunekune piglets get to grips with them  )
We stick with bagged pig feed and a bit of fruit and veg, (we've tried other options but find this works best for us) You can substitute up to half their daily ration with fruit and veg - one pound of hard feed to 4 pounds of fruit and veg, but they'll grow better with a higher ration of pig nuts say, three quarters nuts and a quarter made up with veggies
HTH
Karen

[twizzel]

Ok thanks. Can you feed rolled barley as we have this readily available (beef farmers) or soaked sugarbeet to bulk the nuts out a bit?
We will probably end up buying from market, the next sale has a dispersal of 2 pig farms GOS and another breed if I remember rightly.

[HappyHippy]

You can, but you have to watch because both barley and sugar beet will have them putting on fat instead of muscle. We use a bit of soaked sugar beet to bulk out our sows feed (at a 1:1 weight ratio) but never give them much more than 2lbs a day. With young weaners, you want them to grow well and fast - cutting out the pig nuts and replacing them with alternatives can slow their growth a bit 
HTH and let us know how you get on (with photo's please )
Karen

[rispainfarm]

Can I be really cheeky here  and ask why you are buying from a market and not direct from a breeder. Buying from a breeder you will have after sales support and they will be able to advise you on the feed right the way through plus you will know you are getting a weaner that is healthy and wormed, whereas from market you don't know what you are really getting and you could be getting a pig that has had problems in the past and therefore either won't grow as well or end up costing you. Hope you don't mind me asking this. 

[twizzel]

I think that's a bit of a sweeping generalisation- OH's parents sell store cows through market, they are well fed, wormed and very well bred. The pig market is normally well supported and good stock is put through, it only takes place once a month-6 weeks; obviously if there is nothing there we like we won't buy, likewise if we find weaners we like being sold via a breeder we would consider this option too
 
 

[Hassle]

Buying stores from market is as risky as from breeders in my honest opinion.  When we went looking for our golden retriever we saw some of the breeders and well the less said about that the better. Buying store cattle from breeders and market and the problems I have bought in have taken years to remove.

After sales support ~ for someone starting in pigs or even been doing it a long time, information is everywhere, on here for example, it is unlikely that you are going to experience a situation that someone on this site hasn't already experienced and laughed about ... and after all if it's a serious medical problem well you're not going to make a post and then hope, you'll probably phone your vet ~ mine still does advice for free and I actually trust him enough that he isn't going to come for a whim and a pray and to give me a bill (I do understand that not all vets come into that bracket though)

Now to pig breeders ~ omg ~ having been invited and seen some of those and the conditions they keep pigs shocked even me, one of the first ones we saw certainly made me not want to buy 'high' welfare bacon ever again. I'd rather go and give money to tescos (a company that is not interested in supporting uk standards of welfare but just wants to make a profit so will buy from europe) but at least they are honest with it's all about the bottom line. Another breeder we met, one of it's pigs had mange (that one I almost got my wife to bring a change of clothes and vat of bleach to the end of the drive) and they where willingly showing these animals.

So to market, trading standards are all over it like a rash, a lame animal, I'd hate to be the auctioneer or even drover and get caught moving that off the ramp with everyones eyes / mobile phones and cameras.

And twizzel is buying weaners not stores so might not be a pedegree breed but it's a good start I'd say.

Twizzel ~ I feed my pigs milled barley and a protein mix / a higher %age than to calfs but don't use the protein you would mixed with the weaned cattle there is something in it that the piggies can't handle but I only go up to 4 lbs and hold at that amount until the 6 months point, we mix with lots of water and make a wet porridge which they seem to love and feed twice a day.  If you use rolled barley then you have to soak it longer for the piggies diggestive to work (so I've been told) The pork tastes really really different to shop bought and I'm really pleased with it.

Sugarbeet they love but you have to becareful with quantities and as people have said 4lb of veg is supposed to = 1 lb of normal food

Tried sow weaner nuts only thing i've learnt from that, they are expensive.

Finally and this is the problem not all breeds of pigs are the same so prepare to make mistakes on feed (normally they will be too fat first couple of times as they love to eat and that extra veg you threw over the fence will end up in the butchers bins) but enjoy it, i find it very rewarding 

[rispainfarm]

The reason I asked was becuase so many breeders are having a difficult time at the moment and many including the bigger breeders are being forced to sell at market for pence as they can't sell their stock. Often the price they get from the pig doesn't even cover the price of getting the pig to market. . Many people (I am not saying you as I don't know the reason) buy from a market as they very often get a pig for peanuts rather than the full price.  This is having a knock on effect on many smaller breeders who just can't sustain the financial losses and are then giving up. This then has a further knock on effect with the possibility of lines becoming even rarer.   I believe that we should support breeders and buy direct from them for a decent price rather than go to market and get a pig for next to nothing and the breeder ends up out of pocket. hassle mentioned that buying from breeders is as risky as market, in some instances yes it is, i agree, like everything there are good and bad, but obviously it is up to the customer to research. There are plenty of very good breeders out there who are struggling. Taditional breeds are facing a tough time at the moment and if we don't support these breeders, they will be forced to give up. I will also say Hassle, in many instances, trading standards are not over the market like a rash. At one particular market down in the midlands, pigs had no identification whatsoever in some of the pens and when i spoke to another market a few days later about the lack of identification at some markets, i was told that very often the market "gets around it". Pigs, especially when they have been sold for meat will be loaded onto a lorry, boars, sows and weaners all in together, their stress is plain to see.  At this particular market TS were nowhere to be seen.

[twizzel]

Thankyou hassle for a very informative reply! We aren't picky about what breed we get, we don't mind if it's rare or not. I think market next week has a GOS and saddleback breeder that is selling all of their stock, but I have my eye on some large white x weaners that will also be there. But as I said, we are not going to specifically buy rare breed pigs. OH's dad has reared pigs too and knows his stuff so he will decide ultimately what pigs we buy.


That's great r.e. what feed to use, I think we may mix barley and pellets and see how that goes, of course along with fruit and veg which is in plentiful supply so no problem there.

[Marches Farmer]

I agree with you rispainfarm.  I've had to sell top quality boar weaners at market for a few pounds in the past and hated doing it.  One the other hand I've always bought breeding stock off farm and had the reassurance of meeting the breeder, seeing the other stock, etc.  In the past I've had a refund for a piglet that went down with pneumonia a couple of days after we bought him, and had a runt thrown in for free (and very nice sausages he made too). 

I feed 16% sow and weaner nuts - no point in paying extra for 18% as native breeds or their crosses won't grow any faster on it.

[HappyHippy]

Finally and this is the problem not all breeds of pigs are the same so prepare to make mistakes on feed (normally they will be too fat first couple of times as they love to eat and that extra veg you threw over the fence will end up in the butchers bins) but enjoy it, i find it very rewarding 

Sorry, I've got to disagree 
Overfeeding fruit and veg won't make your pigs overfat (in my experience) - but barley and grains will 

I know pig nuts may seem expensive, but they have exactly the right mix of vitamins, minerals and trace elements that a pig needs for optimum health and growth - I wouldn't drop the pig nuts altogether or you might find your pigs take forever to finish or are poorly along the way.

[rispainfarm]

Barley is suitable for all pigs at any age but must either be ground or soaked for 24 hours. Although I agree with you HH, that pig nuts is best for convenience and for ensuring the pigs are getting the correct minerals etc, when you are looking to cut costs, you need to feed other foodstuff.  As long as you feed by eye and feed carefully as to how the pig looks,  I think there is nothing wrong with feeding barley and other grains as long as all the necessary minerals, protein etc requirements are met, then I would say feed in this way. It does take an experienced eye to correctly feed a pig for maximum profit and unfortunately that only comes with making mistakes and learning as you go.

[Hassle]

Breeders ARE having a bad time, price of deisel and food are just the main items but if breeders are willing to sell then that's there choice! I understand turn-over but why put yourself in that market in the first place why are they breeding pigs with no reasonable outlet... if breeders are breeding quality why aren't they looking for a quality outlet.. they are retorical questions by the way I'm just thinking out loud ... the one thing small holders and even farmers always do is think they are the only person suffering as opposed to working together .... if you know other people that have your breed why not work with them marketing; that way a restaurant maybe with a group will be able to supply the number they require throughout a year.

Sorry HH that was my slip of grammer/ sentence construction i meant with the top-up of veg on top of the grain but if you use sugar beet as the only veg ..... well

And although i havent read what i wrote before and i just want to make this clear there are some really good breeders out there... and I mean REALLY REALLY good.

Finally your markets in the midlands ... I'm surprised normally most markets still have the wierd and wonderful visitors or Joe Public as some others call them and with stress and pain plain to be seen they love taking photos and reporting them the markets I go to will actually destroy a healthy animal if not correctly tagged .. as to the markings lets see if tescos selling horse meat refreshes that