Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: How old is Too old?  (Read 12476 times)

thenovice

  • Joined Oct 2011
How old is Too old?
« on: December 21, 2012, 08:58:10 pm »
Evenin all. Been offered a few old southdown ewes by a friend, and was wondering how old is too old to put them with the ram? I think they are getting on a bit. Whats your experience folks?  :thinking:

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2012, 12:10:05 am »
It's not their age but their condition which counts and their condition is often governed by their teeth.  If they have all their front teeth and no signs of problems with their molars, then all other things being equal they should be ok to lamb.
 
If they have started losing their front teeth then best to steer clear.  Something to bear in mind is that once you decide to cull them, if they go via the knacker the cost of disposal will soon add up, something you don't have to face all in one go if you start with younger animals.
 
We keep primitive breeds and have found the Hebrideans in particular are very long lived.   The oldest ewe we bred was 16 but she lost some teeth over the winter of that last pregnancy so needed extra care.  She lambed and reared twin ewe lambs but now she is losing teeth we won't breed from her again.  We do often breed teenage mums  ;D  but only if they have their teeth.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2012, 01:49:29 am »
As well as checking teeth, don't forget to check udders - it should all feel soft and pliable down there, no hard lumps.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2012, 12:31:24 pm »
As well as checking teeth, don't forget to check udders - it should all feel soft and pliable down there, no hard lumps.

Yes - I'm a bit too fixated on teeth  ;D
 
Also, when I mentioned condition, you do need to check it carefully, plus all the other things you would check on a ewe of any age  :sheep:
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2012, 01:21:44 pm »
If they are ok to breed from - as described above, then its a good idea with something fairly commercial like a southdown.


You will get one or two lamb crops from them then stick them in the mart as culls and get most of what you paid back, thus keeping your flock depreciation low.

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2012, 03:24:42 pm »
My understanding is that if ALL the front teeth are missing but the molars are in good shape, then a ewe can be fine if she's fed appropriately. It's wobbly teeth or just one or two missing that cause the problem.

When I worked on a faarm in Northumbeland, my boss had an ancient ewe called Petsy and she raised quads (with a wee bit of help).

cleopatra

  • Guest
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2012, 10:09:27 pm »
we got our first sheep from the mart and one in particular had no teeth...lol. we did have to put her to sleep in the end as she got so thin.  :innocent:

moprabbit

  • Joined Oct 2011
  • North Notts
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2012, 11:25:57 am »
If ewes have never lambed, at what age would it still be possible to have them put in lamb? I just wondered if there was a maximum age at which it would not be safe/sensible to let them lamb if they'd never lambed before? Thanks
4 pet sheep

cleopatra

  • Guest
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2012, 08:16:37 pm »
If ewes have never lambed, at what age would it still be possible to have them put in lamb? I just wondered if there was a maximum age at which it would not be safe/sensible to let them lamb if they'd never lambed before? Thanks

good question. with ponies its supposed to be 16 yrs ish for a maiden broodmare. dont know about sheep.

Shropshirelass

  • Joined Jul 2012
  • South Shropshire
  • A country lass who loves it all!
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2012, 09:13:31 am »
We tend to have a lot of our commercial ewes go to 8-10 years+ happily raising twins or triplets, If you are going to breed just remeber the gestation is 5 months & their normally put to the tups around August - October time for late winter / early spring lambings although some people do lamb around xmas (God knows why??? - too much hassle), you also have to work out will you lamb indoors or outdoors (Ours are out during the day & we check 5-6 times day & night approx every 2 hours when their in the barn next to the shed at night.) But we do have 200-400 normally.

Also bear in mind:
Purebreeds & crossbreeds finding the right tup ( What offspring has he produced? e.g poor quality lambs)

Crossbreeding - If you do avoid large headed breeds like texels & charolais as their a sod to lamb even for experienced people & often resulting in  c-sections (Although great meat breeds)

What you will do with the lambs after? If their male you will have to separate off after 6 months if kept uncastrated (Its easy to do.) To avoid unwanted pregnancies ( Can you bring yourself to ring castrate them yourself or eat them?) & extra females can't be kept if you own the father. ( A good one would cost around £400+)

Stud fees

Scanning will you do it? (Again more cost)

Weaning - This is normally done from 4-6 months ours are normally 5-6 months (But some people do wean from 3-4 months which I think is cruel  :()

Extra veterinary fees (It's not uncommon for c-sections)

How many you've got to lamb?

Physically knowing how to lamb a ewe having problems giving birth.

Resuscitating lambs or ones having trouble breathing at birth.

Predators - foxes, dogs & badgers will happily take lambs upto 2-3 months in size.

Housing (Young lambs don't like draughts or cold frosts) & we tend to keep ours in indoor pens with the ewes for 3 days -2/3 weeks depending on weather / lambs size or number of lambs.)

The right feed stuffs

Extra feed portions & costs (These & feeds will differ when in lamb & actually when they've lambed) & bottle feeding if need be (It has to be done every 2/ 3 hours)

Ear tags ( you have to either give them breeding tags or kill tags - & they are now electronic & cost around £3-£5 each & should be done from birth.

Livestock movement laws - check this with defra but you have to record all animal movements off your home premises. (Its easier than with cattle though.)

Hmm right I think that's all of it covered - I'm sure there's more that people can exspand on but if your intending on getting sheep - I would talk to your vets & local sheep farmers who do it on a large scale & also invest in a good sheep management book for beginners or 2. I personally love working with sheep & prefer it to cattle work & I do love lambing time but for us it is a mental time of year which can be both very mentally & physically draining when doing large numbers ( Its ok for people who have 20 or so which tend to really take their time lambing  >:() But when you have 400 or so over a 2-3 month period with maybe just 1 or 2 upto 20/30 a day lambing & you have no pens whatsoever left to put any because they've all decided to lamb at once, then maybe bottle feed some & feed all the others plus other livestock, let the ewes out & check approx 10 times a day & ring castrate a load & move a load onto pasture & individually feed approx 20-30 ewes penned with lambs & bring the ewes in again at night & maybe lamb 1 or 2 & maybe call a vet amongst the other farm work  - you'll appreciate we don't get much sleep & rest  that time of year if you know what I mean  :tired: :tired: :tired: ;D ;D ;D  xx
 

Shropshirelass

  • Joined Jul 2012
  • South Shropshire
  • A country lass who loves it all!
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2012, 09:14:16 am »
Sorry god that was an essay x

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2012, 09:26:11 am »
That was some essay, SL!   :D 

Crossbreeding - If you do avoid large headed breeds like texels & charolais as their a sod to lamb even for experienced people & often resulting in  c-sections (Although great meat breeds)

I just wanted to say that in my experience, Charollais is an excellent choice of tup when you want an easy lambing - small, lively, slippery lambs, we hardly ever get any problems with lambing our Charollais x lambs.  The very thin 'skin' really helps - makes them more slippery - although it does mean if the weather is evil when you lamb you will need to jacket the lambs as they have hardly any wool to keep them warm.

I agree that Texels are not a good choice if looking for an easy-lambing for a first-timers but it isn't their heads that are usually the problem, it's their shoulders and rumps. 

Exmoor shepherds say that if using an Exmoor Horn tup, you want to try to make sure you're getting twins - a single ram lamb with well-developed horn buds may have too large a head for an easy lambing. :o

What breed is/are the ewe/s you are considering tupping, moprabbit?  Some breeds are naturally more roomy inside and through the pelvis, some less so.  I'm not sure I'd want to try lambing an aged maiden Swaledale, for instance - there's not a lot of room to get in and help with a maiden shearling, let alone an older lady who presumeably would be less loosened up than a youngster. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2012, 09:50:24 am »
If you had older ewes to lamb for the first time, Id be tempted to try and give them as easy a time as possible - something very easy lambing...


Shetland? Wilts horns are very easy lambing (in spite of the horns), Lleyn? Southdown?


Id also manage the feed - older maiden ewes will probably have been better fed than production ewes of the same age, having not had to devote any energy to raising lambs. I would keep them very tightly fed - probably no sups, maybe minerals with no energy - drench etc.










Shropshirelass

  • Joined Jul 2012
  • South Shropshire
  • A country lass who loves it all!
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2012, 07:59:05 pm »
Mmm sally I do agree on them being slipperery lambs & prone to the cold with charolais (& not to mention very ugly - just my opinion) But I just find in the vets 7/10 times its those breeds or things like 3 quarter crosses ect that either need lambing or c-sections but they do finish with very good meat carcasses quickly - although I'm a rare breeds person myself really (Wish I had time for some - someday  :( ;D) But saying that all of ours except for about 15 of a flock of pure zwarbles (Great lambers & lean carcasses by the way) are Texel crosses as we have about 12-14 texel rams & 1 zwarble ram which when finished with his girlies joins the main flock  ;D ;D ;D, but our ewes are a mix of assorts such as clun forests (my personal faves), shropshires, Kerry, welsh mule, suffolks, Jacobs (Another fave),  Texels, speckles (don't know the breed name their some crossbreed), & various crossbreeds so to be fair we very rarely need to call the vet & I think last year we had 1 c-section & we maybe lamb say 20 in 2-3 months out of 200-400 so its not bad going & = 5-10%

ScotsGirl

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • Wiltshire
Re: How old is Too old?
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2012, 05:47:22 pm »
I love Southdown however I have 2 crossed with Wilts Horn and they are both tight in the pelvis making lambing difficult. I had a third but had to destroy her and lost both lambs cos couldn't get them out. Also used Southdown ram for a couple of years and although gorgeous meat quality, I had some ewe lambs which also had the tiny pelvis and no good for breeding.


This breed are also very fleecy and I have found more prone to fly strike and squitty poo. Not a worm problem as I have a mix of breeds and always the same offenders.

 

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