[Marches Farmer]

Will also need a water supply for stock but I'd be inclined to go with the sheep man.  Around here it's called Grass Keep and the season runs from April 1 to October 31 so the ground's rested in Winter.  It can be grazed or used for haymaking as the renter wishes.  The sheep will eat pretty well everything, including weed species within the first few weeks of Spring growth, and their muck will fertilise the ground.  Horses are very selective feeders and will poach the ground, which means the grass plants are pushed under the earth and the following Spring weeds grow in the resulting bare ground.  The ground will be choked with thistles, nettles and docks within a few years - the seeds can last for decades in the soil, just waiting for a good light level to trigger germination. 

[waveneygnome]

Thanks for all the advice.

a)  Spoke to several people at Easton College & felt like I was passed around the houses.........end result - they were interested, but didn't know who would be the best person/department to take it forward.

b)  No chance of planning - I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure the seller would have done before selling it!

c)  I have read up about horse grazing now, and can see the pitfalls.

d)  Sheep man still keen and sounds like nice chap.....and I'm warming to the idea.  He is planning to bring water to the site each day/top-up a large IBC container that he would like to leave on site.

For clarification, he is offering me £30 per acre, per yr = £300 per year............NOT £30 per month, per acre = £3600 per year.  Local land agent has said this is too low, and would expect from £100 to £200 per acre per year (£200 top end for horsey people!)
 
e)  Have put in motion buying entitlements for the land, which should bring a small income at least for the next 2 yrs (until reform of current system is announced).

f)  Have planned meeting with local Wildlife Advisory Group in Feb, to assess what more can be done to improve biodiversity/management of the land/hedges/trees etc.

g)  Have been offered £30k, yes £30,000 MORE than I paid for the land from a local landowner who missed the sale...............tempting. 

Next meeting planned is with Mr Sheep......expect some arm wrestling and hoping to increase the £30 acre/yr price.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[Tregwyr]

Hi,

Can you tell me a bit more about "buying entitlements"? I can't understand the whole SPS issue. for a start I thought you had to be a farmer, as defined by the European Union, in order to access any funding or support?

[smiley bucket]

Oh don't sell it, you'll forever wish, what if?  Don't rule out planning eventually either, the people are revolting, slowly, so you never know.  Its a great time waster thinking about where house will go, what it will be like etc
Back to  reality  though, I'd look for a better offer from your sheep man and have a contract sorted via land agent for your own protection then give yourself a year or two to think about what you want to do with it.
 I've had my current land for 18 months now, only 6 acres though, but i've found i keep having changes of mind as to what I should do with it, or where X Y or Z should be (funds and other assorted problems permitting!).

[zwartbles]

We aren't far away, 30miles southwest of Norwich and pay about £80 per acre per year for decent grazing

[waveneygnome]

Thanks zwartbles, that's helpful to know.

Tregwyr - I'm still learning, but it think this is how the SPS payments work:

To get paid you need (a) land (b) entitlements (c) be registered as a business with the Rural Payments Agency (d) your land has to be registered also with the Rural Land Register (e) your land has to be officially mapped/identified/checked by RPA/RLR.

a)  Land bit was easy - I bought it and is classed as 'naked acres' i.e. naked of entitlements.

b)  Entitlements, are simply a RIGHT to claim SPS payments............without them, you can't claim.  In addition if you can't claim under the SPS, then you are also restricted in claiming from other environmental support schemes.  Entitlements are sold by the hectare - you need to buy enough hectares worth of them to cover your productive land (see (e).
 
I bought land with no entitlements....there are people/farmers out there who have entitlements but no land (as they sold land off earlier for housing/developement/naked) = I need to approach them directly or via a land agent or a few companies now on-line, and try to buy their right.

c)  You need to register with the RPA as a business.  This can be done by phone if you have the address of the land, your bank details, your contact details.  They did try and put me off at first & sent me round the houses....until 2 hrs later came back to the same person........who registered me = I now have Single Business Identifier number.

d)  You need to fill in a form RLE1, which you outline your land.  The Rural Land Registry check the boundaries of neighbouring land, and send you a map with the number of hectares they think your land is.  NOTE I have been advised this can be an interesting exercise.  You buy a 5 hectare field....says so on estate agents sales particulars....but when you try and register it with RLR, it come back at 4.7 hectares (land area can go up as well as down).  There are mechanisms in place should you dispute the boundaries/findings.

e)  To qualify under the SPS, the land has to be deemed productive, so during the mapping process, any Permanent Ineligible Features (PIFs) will be removed from you total field area.  E.g You own 5 hectares, but there is a 0.5 hectare pond, 0.25 hectare concrete pad, 0.15 hectares worth of hard track = 4.1 hectares are only available for production.  NOTE:  I have been advised to wait until the mapping is completed BEFORE purchasing entitlements.  This is to ensure that I buy enough of them should my land shrink or grow a little.

Once you have all these in place, you can make a claim under SPS.   Deadline for SPS claims is 15th May, and if everything is in order, you should get paid in Nov/Dec.

Wow....lots to take in I know.

Is it worth it?..............I'll write about this on another post!

[SteveHants]

d)  Sheep man still keen and sounds like nice chap.....and I'm warming to the idea.  He is planning to bring water to the site each day/top-up a large IBC container that he would like to leave on site.

For clarification, he is offering me £30 per acre, per yr = £300 per year............NOT £30 per month, per acre = £3600 per year.  Local land agent has said this is too low, and would expect from £100 to £200 per acre per year (£200 top end for horsey people!)
 

That sounds fair, especially for rough grazing (as it will be if its overgrown).


Land agent probably hasn't seen the land.

[Kentishsteve]

I am a townie.

Don't worry the majority of people in the countryside are nowadays especially the south east

[Derby_menagerie]

To be fair Mr. Sheep man is going to fence the land, look at the cost of that and consider that into the cost of rent!

[Tregwyr]

Thanks for the info re SPS. Sounds awfully complicated and an awful lot of hassle, probably means keeping paperwork up to scratch etc in order to qualify?