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Author Topic: castrating mature lambs  (Read 5989 times)

trefnantbach

  • Joined Feb 2010
  • Anglesey
castrating mature lambs
« on: December 14, 2012, 08:36:54 pm »
just taken our last 3 bog standard white castrated-at-birth  lambs to the abbatoir. which now only leaves three entire soay lambs which i'm planning to take there about next august at the earliest. only the man at the lairage said by then the meat could be tainted as they wer'nt castrated. this will be our first experience of soay meat and we're so looking forward and dont want to be disappointed. any advice? woud the vet come out and do it? i did all the others at birth but found it difficult to do a good job with rings with the soays and its impossible to catch them after a few days

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 08:49:52 pm »
We have eaten 4 year old Shetlnd tup, taken in in March, and no sign of any taint (or if there was the curry did hide it  ;) ), so if these boys are kept away from any females there shouldn't be much taint.
Others may disagree though ... :-\ , just the costs of vet doing it are probably difficult to justify.

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 12:50:38 am »
Never noticed taint, ever - and I have slaughtered ram lambs at a year old.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 01:22:00 am »
We kill our Hebs (entire males) at 16 months with no problems of taint, and have done a couple of Soays too.  If they go in August then the breeding season hasn't started so they don't smell - some breeds seem to smell more tuppy than others and I don't know if this is reflected in a taint to the meat.
 
I agree that it can be impossible to ring a Soay tup within the first 7 days.  Even if you do get the ring on, the testicles themselves are so tiny that there is the risk they will slip halfway through the ring, which would be agony, or they can slip right through and you have a rigg, with functioning testicles inside the abdomen.  I would argue that for welfare reasons, Soay should be ringed at three weeks.
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SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 06:32:56 am »
I agree that it can be impossible to ring a Soay tup within the first 7 days.  Even if you do get the ring on, the testicles themselves are so tiny that there is the risk they will slip halfway through the ring, which would be agony, or they can slip right through and you have a rigg, with functioning testicles inside the abdomen.  I would argue that for welfare reasons, Soay should be ringed at three weeks.

I know the rules are 7 days but it makes sense that it's once the testicles are large enough, which with the tiny Soay is not by 7 days!  I've heard people with other primitive breeds say it's more like a fortnight before they're large enough, and the Soay is smaller still.

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Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Fronhaul

  • Joined Jun 2011
    • Fronhaul Farm
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 10:47:43 am »
The vet will come and do it but it isn't cheap and our vet insisted the 10 we had done (long story but we had a change of direction and wanted some more conservation grazers) at around 6 months were all Heptavac'd first and also said he would not be happy to do it if they were intended for eating rather than conservation grazing.  All 10 seem happy and well now (4 weeks on) but needed to be kept in and a close eye kept on them for a few days after castration. 

And I agree, the 7 day rule is completely arbitrary and potentially works against the welfare of the lamb in some breeds.  I find the Shetlands difficult as well.  As for ear tagging black welsh mountain lambs even now the tags dwarf their small ears.

Ina

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Aberdeenshire
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 06:59:28 pm »
I agree that it can be impossible to ring a Soay tup within the first 7 days.  Even if you do get the ring on, the testicles themselves are so tiny that there is the risk they will slip halfway through the ring, which would be agony, or they can slip right through and you have a rigg, with functioning testicles inside the abdomen.  I would argue that for welfare reasons, Soay should be ringed at three weeks.

I know the rules are 7 days but it makes sense that it's once the testicles are large enough, which with the tiny Soay is not by 7 days!  I've heard people with other primitive breeds say it's more like a fortnight before they're large enough, and the Soay is smaller still.

I know the farmers around here do the Blackies much later, too.. Although I found most of them ok within 7 days, there were always a few that needed more time.

Brucklay

  • Joined Apr 2010
  • Perthshire
    • Brucklay Pygmy Goats
    • Facebook
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 07:29:26 pm »
I was a big baby when my first lamb was born in 2012 a x castlemilk Shetland so he is entire - no issues with him or his causrated castlemilk pall so I think it's a good test re taint - results next year :thumbsup:
Pygmy Goats, Shetland Sheep, Zip & Indie the Border Collies, BeeBee the cat and a wreak of a building to renovate!!

trefnantbach

  • Joined Feb 2010
  • Anglesey
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 01:45:30 pm »
thanks for your responses. I will leave this year's lambs entire and slaughter next summer before tupping time. As for next year ....  is the 7 days thing a rule or is it law? If its the latter then am I right to understand that people are happy to bend the law  and give it more time to ensure a reliable result? The problem is our fencing is not currently up to separating determined soay male lambs from their mothers and anything else  female that moves!
 
cheeers

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 02:19:11 pm »
I believe it is actually law. If you speak to people with Soay, I think you will find that most will agree that it is very difficult  to effectively castrate many Soay in the first week, particularly twins. They are just too small.


A neighbour helped with the ringing of our Soay. His tip was to get the job done quickly once you were certain that you could feel both testicles. The more they were handled the testicles seemed to disappear back into the body    ...... we kept checking after 2 days of age. 

Richard Underwood

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Cathilas Farm Soay - Hogget & Prime Mutton
Re: castrating mature lambs
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 09:37:43 pm »
We have Soay and castrate using a burdizzo (clamp) rather than rings due to the problem of using rings in the first week. You can legally do it this way at any time up to 3 months which means the lambs are quite a bit larger, the testicles are fully descended and you have longer to choose the ones you want to keep entire for breeding.

If you haven't seen a burdizzo look it up on Wikipedia. The only down side is the cost of the device but they last for years. They are available from most farm stores or you can get them on ebay (for £17 which sounds good value). When storing them leave them open not closed shut as this keeps the spring mechanism tight.

It is straightforward once you get used to it but get someone to show you how a couple of time as you have to clamp in the right place or you can cause serious injury. Your vet should do it for you and show you how if you ask,  Although it sounds as though it should be very painful it doesn't actually seem to hurt them much; some kick a bit but many of them don't even seem to notice.

 
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