[40acres]

Hi guys,

I was left a plot of land in Southern Ireland recently. It was originally 40 acres, but after a survey and letter the PRAI (Land registry Ireland) its now 50 acres 

The problem I'm having is ......what to do with it? It's currently fenced off into two sections of 10+ hectares each. There's no buildings on it, and it forms part of a glacial lake, so the land is rather steep. There's limited space to site a barn building, but not much else due to the topography of the land. Theres electricity to the site, but not connected, as for water, it has two streams running down the land either side and overlooks a lake 500mx1500m (I own the bank to it ,but noi fishing rights) Saying that, it is very,very green.
Due to location, unless I get PP for a house on it (which I don't think will happen) I cant work it myself.
I've had a valuation on it ,with a view to selling on, but it came back 'unfavorable' to sell. I think the valuer was trying it on as he couldn't provide me with evidence of his valuation ,he said he'd based it on a local recent land sale . Ive called other valuers in the area who have quadrupled the original estimate, but this will mean an extra outlay to revalue the property,

A for renting it out, I cant find any reference to an agency locally to do this, do I need to ask local auctioneers?

Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated.

[MikeM]

I know nothing about Irish planning process, but why do you say you won't get PP to build a house? My understanding is that they have very lax laws anyways (hence  the virtually unrestrained building over the last 10 years) and that their economy is in such dire straits that anyone coming along with some money to employ a builder, no matter how small the project, would be most welcome.

[doganjo]

And why do you have to pay for a valuation - I've just had three for mine and am awaiting a fourth.  Estate agents like Remax are all over the world - I'm sure they'd help you.

[Fowgill Farm]

As you've already found out yourself other valuers in the area value it higher than your original valuer which suggests to me he already has somebody lined up to buy it off you cheap and sell it on and share the spoils, call me a cynic but i smell a big fat rat there.
Again can't help with the irish process but it might be worth asking around locally as to the rental value if thats the path you want to take.
PP wise i believe the irish authorities are clamping down but i suspect that if you prove you want to move to the area and make a go of the land and contribute to the local economy then i'm sure they would look on your PP favourably.
Mandy
this link might help http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/planning_and_development_in_ireland/

[40acres]

Thanks ever so much for the replies 

I had to pay for the valuation as it was undertaken by the surveyor, not by an auctioneer. The area is in an 'area of outstanding beauty' so, I might get PP, but Im kinda thinking along other lines as it looks like an exercise in timewasting   
I can apply for PP if Im working it, but I have a decent job and my wife wouldn't 'up sticks' to follow me over (might be a good thing?  )
Ive kind of come to a halt on this, as the valuation has knocked the wind out of me. Was thinking about a wind farm on it, but I suppose that will go down like a lead balloon with the locals 

[doganjo]

I'm still thinking that Estate agents would value it for free - as I said they did mine, even before I got planning consent.

[Small Farmer]

Property in Ireland has the same economic issues as in the UK but about twenty times worse.  Everyone and his dog played the market, so there is a truly vast number of planning permissions on all sorts of land, sufficient to make Spain look like it's under-developed.  There are whole cities worth of consented plots which will never be built on for the simple reason that there is no conceivable demand for them.  Bear in mind that the Irish banking system collapsed as a consequence of daft property loans and the population is falling because of emigration.  Note that Lloyds Bank just sold a £1bn package of Irish property loans at 8p in the £ to a bunch of Americans.



The reason that a valuation costs money is that the valuer owes you a duty of care and can be sued for being wrong.  The reason for an estate agents opinion being free is that he/she doesn't, and is only doing it to win the job of selling it - hence the flattering prices.


An RICS Red Book valuation can be done in quite a number of ways, the favourite being what someone is likely to pay for it based on comparable evidence.  In a market which is grossly over-supplied, totally illiquid and for which no debt is available there are no comparables.


The development value will be the residual value calculated as the estimated value of the completed property less the development costs, finance costs and profit.  By and large these costs exceed any possible sale price so that development values are mostly negative.  Finally land is worth what someone can do with it, so the agricultural land value is going to be constrained by the difficult shape of the land and the weakness of the farming economy.


I'm sorry to be negative but that's the way it is.  Had the government not guaranteed its banks' obligations in 2008 the country as a whole would be doing quite well having left a bunch of foreigners with awesome losses.  The better news is that Ireland will be one of the best recovery plays, but it will take quite a while.

[doganjo]

Not sure I agree with this statement -

The reason that a valuation costs money is that the valuer owes you a duty of care and can be sued for being wrong.  The reason for an estate agents opinion being free is that he/she doesn't, and is only doing it to win the job of selling it - hence the flattering prices.

The valuations I've had ion my last three house moves and my plot have been similar from 4 estate agents, and in fact I got quite a lot more on the sale of the houses than the estimates, and that was over a period of 10 years and differing types of properties.  JMHO

[40acres]

I do agree with the 'duty of care' angle' whole heartedly. I just think he was just over cautious....very ,very overcautious. The average acre price in Eire is about E10K, taking into account the terrain and such, it 'should' be in the region of 30% off that. Again, its a depressed market and you'l only get what someone will pay, but all  the same an over estimate is as bad as an under IMHO. 
Any ways, the rental will be between E150/200 PA. So that's a little over 7k, but again, no sheds ,water or electricity, which will have to be resolved prior to any leasing.

Could make it in to  a Zorbing' park   

[smiley bucket]

Why dont you stick an ad in the Farmers Journal and see what happens?

[Small Farmer]

The valuations I've had ion my last three house moves and my plot have been similar from 4 estate agents, and in fact I got quite a lot more on the sale of the houses than the estimates, and that was over a period of 10 years and differing types of properties.  JMHO

In a rising market there's volume and lots of evidence.  It is straightforward for an estate agent active in a local market to give a reasonable view of value for most types of property.   And in that rising market the actual price achieved can easily be greater - valuation is a statement about the market on a given day.   In a falling market there is no volume and the absence of transactions makes it impossible to determine prices.   Individual transactions don't demonstrate prices - you need a cluster of data.  In a collapsed market the big wobbly is the number of properties which could be dumped on the market by repossession.

[smiley bucket]

I read in the last day or two about millions of trees being given away in Ireland.  worth a google maybe?

[40acres]

Ooh, got it.  http://www.zipfires.com/ie/willow/planting-one-million-willows-in-ireland/
Might put it in Farmers Journal, but not having a base price to work from might be a problem. May look into getting it valued through an auctioneer in the New Year, will see.
As I've said, the only way I can see to make any decent money off this is to work it myself. Cant be planted with food stock as the topography isnt conducive to machinery. Tree planting is a possibility.
If I leased it out, would this be done through an auctioneer?

[smiley bucket]

An auctioneer will find a client for you but I'd get a solicitor to do the lease to keep yourself protected.  Prices in Ireland are really hard to judge just now and from personal experience with Irish Auctioneers they will tell you anything just to get at your money so be very careful.  Try posting on the British Farming Forum, there are a fair few Irishmen on there who could give you up to date advice and opinions. 

[40acres]

An auctioneer will find a client for you but I'd get a solicitor to do the lease to keep yourself protected.  Prices in Ireland are really hard to judge just now and from personal experience with Irish Auctioneers they will tell you anything just to get at your money so be very careful.  Try posting on the British Farming Forum, there are a fair few Irishmen on there who could give you up to date advice and opinions.

Cheers SM. Gave me some good food for thought.