[sc12011]

Ive recently had 2 pigs back from the butcher, but i didnt get back the amount I was expecting...
They were 8 month old OSB's. Two knowledgeable people (one a farmer & butcher- (not mine), and the other a pig farmer) saw them just before they went to the abbatoir and both said they would expect about 70kg+ of meat off each one. I got about 50kg each.
I spoke to their breeder today and she said yes there would have been about 70kg, and that they definately kept some of my meat. This is apparenly very common! And this is a large, well known butcher. She said she has seen them do it with her own eyes before which is why they take theirs away and butcher them themselves now.
Does anyone else have any experience of this?. I spent this morning fuming that they had the cheek to do this as it is blatant theft, but i know theres nothing i can do about it even if it is true. 
(i am in suffolk, by the way incase anyone knows who im talking about...  )

[MAK]

So sorry to hear this - after all the care and hard work too.
Is it possible to identify the cuts you got back and attempt to schematically assemble the carcus? Sure sausage meat will account for some meat and fat but if you have missing meat then this will be evident. Sureley we are talking about theft here.
It strikes me that butchers asking for a cutting list are maybe doing so because, in part, they want to assess the pig owners knowledge of the range and number of cuts. Sure the cutting list will allow good butchers to cut and prepare to the customers needs. But if for example the owner does not ask for the tenderloins then they won't get any back. The butcher can always say that they put missing cuts into the sausage. So maybe it is a total weight argument that you need to present.
Again - so sorry to hear your news. 

[cleopatra]

we butcher our own but when we used a butcher, we asked for the fat/scraps back as the pigs were overweight, we got 14kg of fat from one pigs...oops. if you havent got the head, trotters etc they weigh a fair bit when you add it up. plus offal.
can you not weigh the meat, then find out the liveweight and deadweight from the abattoir?

[rispainfarm]

We have had that done to us in the past. We certainly didnt get back all the meat off two pigs, although at the time we didn't do anything about it, because we felt we didn't have sufficient evidence.

[Fowgill Farm]

. if you havent got the head, trotters etc they weigh a fair bit when you add it up. plus offal.
can you not weigh the meat, then find out the liveweight and deadweight from the abattoir?

i agree with cleopatra its surprising how much weight you lose with the head trotters etc and this might be i generally send my porkers at six months and i get aprox 40kg of joints back per pig and sausages on top of that approx 15kg, you will also find that if your pigs were fatty they will have cut away a lot of the fat which obviously weighs a lot, check the lady who told you they had taken meat from her doesn't have an axe to grind or a personal issue with that butcher it does happen!
Mandy
 

[FiB]

yes 70Kg of meat sounded massive to me - so glad Mandy who has vastly greater experience than me said that.  We've had 4 enormous saddlebacks go now and have got around 40-50Kg plus sausages  back and all expected cuts seemed present (plus I really trust our butcher).  We didnt have ofal, head or excess fat back.  I guess the only way to be sure next time is to do 1 self butchery?   Good luck fi xx

[happygolucky]

I keep no livestock but I often wonder myself if you get it all back or Even get yours back!!!!It is theft but how can you tell they have kept some unless you are at their side!!!!
Hope you sort things out...I would be fuming too!!

[hughesy]

The only way to be sure is to get your carcass back whole or maybe just split or cut into primals at the most.  Think about it though if you get back 70kg of boned out meat from a pig it would have had to be probably 150kg ish live weight, or a 70 kg carcass still on the bone with head etc would have been 100kg live weight.

[MAK]

True about the difference between live weight and carcass weight (with head and offal) then the difference between carcass alone with no head or offal. Finally the difference between carcass weight and all cuts plus sausage and trimmings.
We will be slaughtering our 2 in a couple of weeks and I will butcher again. last year we weighed all that we put in the freezer but this year I will be making a comprehensive list so that I can understand the relative weights of cuts/offal/sausage and waste.
Not sure how I can accurately measure the live (dead weight) but the plan is that I jump on the scales whilst trying to stand with half a carcass ( not an easy task - maybe I should quarter it first) and balancing a pigs head somehow.
Last year I could not get through the front door with half a pig over my shoulder and needed to return it to the hook and quarter it ( what fun for the watching neighbours).
I'll post pig weights with the list of cuts etc when all done.( I will also record time on task).

[kja]

True about the difference between live weight and carcass weight (with head and offal) then the difference between carcass alone with no head or offal. Finally the difference between carcass weight and all cuts plus sausage and trimmings.
We will be slaughtering our 2 in a couple of weeks and I will butcher again. last year we weighed all that we put in the freezer but this year I will be making a comprehensive list so that I can understand the relative weights of cuts/offal/sausage and waste.
Not sure how I can accurately measure the live (dead weight) but the plan is that I jump on the scales whilst trying to stand with half a carcass ( not an easy task - maybe I should quarter it first) and balancing a pigs head somehow.
Last year I could not get through the front door with half a pig over my shoulder and needed to return it to the hook and quarter it ( what fun for the watching neighbours).
I'll post pig weights with the list of cuts etc when all done.( I will also record time on task).

would it not be easier to ask slughterhouse/butcher to weigh it when you go and collect if there are no DW on our carcase we always ask them to weigh they are more than happy to do it for us.

[MAK]

Not really as we home kill and there is no way I am going to put our bathroom scales in the pig run in this weather and put a just killed pig on my shoulder. 

[cleopatra]

what was the backfat? this should be on the label put on the carcus by the abattoir.
a pig i have sent in a 19mm back fat have had no more that half a cup of trimmings discarded with basic butchery by myself. 55kg live. 40kg meat
a previous pig which had 35mm backfat had 14kg of fat cut off, which was a black sack full. this carcus was
professionally cut into sausages/chops/mince etc by a butcher.85kg liveweight. 50kg meat.

[Tamsaddle]

I think it would be exceptionally unlikely that any 8 month old OSBs would have weighed 150 kg liveweight, even if they were very very fat.   But that is approx. what they would have had to be  to expect 70 kg meat back.   The average ratios that everyone works to is 0.72 between live and dead weight, then 0.7 between dead weight and butchered cuts, which comes to about half the original live weight.   Perhaps whoever it was meant they would be 70 kg deadweight, if so, 50 kg of butchered meat would be just right.   I certainly wouldn't have expected more than 60 kg maximum from an 8 month old OSB pig.   Could you not get a slaughter report from your abbatoir to find out what the dead weights were?    Our slaughterhouse is very happy to provide them.   Tamsaddle

[SteveHants]

I keep no livestock but I often wonder myself if you get it all back or Even get yours back!!!!It is theft but how can you tell they have kept some unless you are at their side!!!!
Hope you sort things out...I would be fuming too!!

You have to get yours back - regs and all that.


It helps that often smallholder animals are not 'commercial' and as such aren't what the butchers would want anyway.

[cleopatra]

[/quote]


It helps that often smallholder animals are not 'commercial' and as such aren't what the butchers would want anyway.
[/quote]

definitely agree.