Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Cattle Feed?  (Read 7587 times)

FiBob

  • Joined Nov 2012
Cattle Feed?
« on: November 27, 2012, 11:48:41 am »
Hi there!!

I'm doing some research for a report, and there is a lot of information out there, and it's not always easy to make sense of it all, so I thought I'd come to a place where I could get some help!
I get that in good weather cows eat grass :) but what else do you feed a beef cow? I keep reading about feed, and silage and hay... What are the main constituents of these and where do you get them from?
While I'm at it - have any of you experienced anything that has significantly affected the price of your cattle going to slaughter recently?

Thanks so much guys!

Fi

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2012, 12:36:54 pm »
Hi FiBob.  :wave:   I see you've asked for similar input under Pigs.

I could write pages, but would like to know a bit about you and your report before investing that amount of time, if you don't mind.

Please tell us a bit about yourself.

Thanks, Sally
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Polished Arrow

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • Forest of Dean
  • www.cinderhilllfarm.com
    • www.cinderhillfarm.com
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 12:39:52 pm »

Hi FiBob.  :wave:   I see you've asked for similar input under Pigs.

I could write pages, but would like to know a bit about you and your report before investing that amount of time, if you don't mind.

Please tell us a bit about yourself.

Thanks, Sally


I have just asked almost the same questions under pigs, Sally. 
We must have great minds or something  :D
www.cinderhillfarm.com

We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are.
Anais Nin

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2012, 12:52:30 pm »
I have just asked almost the same questions under pigs, Sally. 
We must have great minds or something  :D

That, or the other one...  :-J :D
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Polished Arrow

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • Forest of Dean
  • www.cinderhilllfarm.com
    • www.cinderhillfarm.com
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2012, 01:05:26 pm »
I have just asked almost the same questions under pigs, Sally. 
We must have great minds or something  :D

That, or the other one...  :-J :D


 :innocent:   :D
www.cinderhillfarm.com

We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are.
Anais Nin

FiBob

  • Joined Nov 2012
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2012, 03:05:57 pm »
Thanks for the reply guys!
I've kinda given a detailed about me thing in the pigs category. Sorry I double posted - Wasn't sure if there would be a huge overlap in users across categories :)

Fibob

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2012, 09:55:59 pm »
I get that in good weather cows eat grass :) but what else do you feed a beef cow? I keep reading about feed, and silage and hay... What are the main constituents of these and where do you get them from?
While I'm at it - have any of you experienced anything that has significantly affected the price of your cattle going to slaughter recently?

('Forage' is crops, usually leafy, fed to livestock.  'Cake' is concentrate - a mix of flakes and pellets, or just pellets.  Usually has minerals and other dietary requirements added.  Straights is a single grain or feedstuff, eg., barley, unadulterated.)

Hay is dried grass.  Cut, dried in the sun, baled.  Little square bales, big square bales or large round bales.  Keeps for years as long as it's kept dry.

Silage is fermented forage, usually fermented grass but could be other crops ensiled.  (Wholecrop maize or barely, for instance.)  Cut, wilted for a short while but not as dry as hay.  Wrapped in plastic, usually in big round bales but you can get big square bales.  Once opened it must be used up within days.  Larger operations have silage pits, where the cut grass is heaped up and covered in a plastic sheet.  To make this you must be able to cut many fields all on the same day.  When used, pit silage is sliced from the open face and the face re-covered.

Silage costs more to make and can 'run right through them', making a lot of wet slurry to dispose of.  Many farmers mix it with chopped straw to make it go further and to dry up the slurry a bit.

Hay is more difficult to make, technically, although it can be done using simpler equipment. 

Cattle cake is a mix of grains and other feedstuffs with minerals and vitamins added.  The balance of grains depends on the target beasts - young stock, store beasts, milking dairy cows, finishing cattle.  Beef suckler cows mostly don't get given cake.

Farmers with good land will make their own barley, maize, turnips, etc, all of which will reduce the cake bill.

Most adult cattle are housed over winter, certainly in the north.  If loose housed then straw is needed for bedding.  Most farms now have cubicles, where each cow has a 'bed', usually now with a mat or mattress for comfort.  The dung and urine and, where used, soiled straw, have to be managed safely and legally.  Large dairy farms mostly have slurry towers which can store 6 months' slurry.  Farmyard manure is a great natural fertiliser, so farmers want to get it back on the land when it'll do most good.

TB is a big issue to dairy and beef farms.  No coherent plan for its control is forthcoming.  If you are in a TB area, the only way to keep your cattle safe from the disease is to house them full time.  If you are from an area that has TB, you cannot sell your beasts into Scotland (or if you can then there are a lot of hoops to go through) except for immediate slaughter.

Cake and artificial fertiliser have gone up enormously recently.  Breeds which do better on grass and don't need intensive finishing therefore are becoming more popular, plus Morrisons now pay +10p/kg deadweight for beasts fathered by pedigree Aberdeen Angus or pedigree Hereford bulls, and +20p/kg for beasts fathered by pedigree Beef or Whitebred Shorthorn bulls - so those breeds now fetch more at all points in their lifecycle.

Most farmers need their subsidies to survive, and increasingly the subsidies impose environmental scrictures.  Supplements may be paid for using native breed cattle to graze moorland, which has increased the costs of breeding pedigree Galloway and other native breeds enormously.

Anaerobic digesters are starting to go up around the country now.  It is hard to quite predict the effect of these.  Basically they need cattle that are housed all year round, living on slats, so the slurry is collected easily and fed into the digester.  The original theory was that the land would grow grass which would be fed to the cattle, who would make slurry and beef.  The slurry would go through the digester, release energy and produce fertliser for the land.  The fertiliser would be spread on the land and help more grass to grow.  However, the systems now going up need the grass to go directly into the digester, the feed for the cattle is being brought in from elsewhere. 

If this all sounds completely bonkers, it is.   ::)  We live in a world where, in a country ideally suited to rearing beef off grass, we house cattle on slats, feed them cake made from imported soya, to grow which rainforest has been cut down.   ::)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

FiBob

  • Joined Nov 2012
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 08:49:32 am »
Huge thanks for that Sally!! That really helps to clarify a lot in my mind. Like I said I'm a complete newbie in this area, but the more I find out about it, the more it intrigues and interests me. 
I've still got a mountain of questions whirring through my mind. The more I read, the more I want to know. I mean, I see that age and gender relates to the terms steer and heifer and bull etc - and why that would cause a variation in terms of pricing - but do they produce hugely differing meat? In terms of fat, and marbling etc. And are some better for some cuts than others?
And the dairy cow! I've barely touched on the dairy cow yet! (I'll be back)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 03:07:53 pm »
Most muscle - bull
Least muscle - heifer

Heifers also cause management problems as they are sexually mature, so are not preferred by some rearers.  (They may not eat when they are a-bulling, may try to jump out when they are a-bulling and damage themselves or their pen, heavier beasts jumping on heifers that are a-bulling may cause them to do the splits...)

Bulls need to be run just with other bulls of the same size, really.  And not within sight or smell of sexually active females... ;)  Of course they need more experienced handling, too.

Stirks are easiest to rear, although they can run to fat more than a bull as they can be a bit fat and lazy in the absence of females to get them wound up.  (If they are castrated very young they aren't interested, but if they're castrated at 8-12 weeks they may retain some interest, although not the fertility. ;))
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

downsized

  • Joined Oct 2012
  • Dumfriesshire
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2012, 10:30:22 pm »
Killing out % is less in a heifer i.e. two cattle of similar weight/grade the heifer carcase will yield less saleable meat.

cleopatra

  • Guest
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 11:23:54 pm »
- have any of you experienced anything that has significantly affected the price of your cattle going to slaughter recently?


am i right in thinking you mean the prices of finished cattle going to slaughter, ie for large-scale farmers? or do you literally mean slaughter costs fpr a small-producers?

FiBob

  • Joined Nov 2012
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 08:20:28 am »
Wow, the response I've gotten from you guys is amazing - thank you!!

Downsized: that helps so much!

Cleopatra: that's exactly what I meant, sorry about the naivety of my question.

FiBob

  • Joined Nov 2012
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2012, 01:33:48 pm »
I'm back!

I thought, given my time limits at work, I'd churned out a pretty good report - looks like it's not what they want. Does anyone have some sources of information regarding the price of cuts of meat, and what affects them? ie why is sirloin more expensive in november over october, or brisket less expensive?

Thanks!

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2012, 08:18:37 pm »
from a laypersons point of view a lot is to do with supply & demand, lambs for example are a good price because we aren't getting as much NZ lamb imported as we used to as its going to the far east now so home lamb is in greater demand.
Beef is in good demand because of a surge in world needs again we're not importing as much as we used to so prices go up, as for individual cuts a lot of that is historical the better more tender cuts cost more and the tougher slow cooking cuts cost less, pries go up or down depending on the supply and demand.
Pity the same can't be said for pork nothing seems to make the price of that rise :rant: :gloomy:
Mandy :pig:

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Cattle Feed?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2012, 05:11:41 am »
Does anyone have some sources of information regarding the price of cuts of meat, and what affects them? ie why is sirloin more expensive in november over october, or brisket less expensive?

It's usually pretty hard for a farmer to second guess why we get more or less one week than another.  So this will be complete guesswork.

Factors I could think might affect sirloin vs brisket could include :
  • there's more of the expensive cuts on a continental animal than on a traditional native type - look at the backside on a Limousin compared to an Angus or Hereford - and muscle like that takes feeding. 
  • Animals generally need to be housed to finish them, especially later in the year - which again means feeding and also manure management.  Forage and straw gets more expensive through the winter.
  • Because of the costs of housing, I guess a lot of beasts will be sent away fat in September and October, before the colder weather causes them to start to lose condition.  So there's maybe a bit of a glut in October and then less being sold in November?  You could check the primestock quantities to see if there's anything in that - I'd check headages and also tonnages, it could be same number of beasts but smaller (less liveweight), poorer (less deadweight), or less beasts, or all three.  Liveweight will tell you the average size of beast being sold, deadweight as a proportion of liveweight will give you an indication of the quality of the beasts being sold.
  • I don't know when the social seasonal factors kick in - prime cuts will always be more in the run up to Christmas... I don't know when that price hike starts, or whether there's any impact of Thanksgiving, etc

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

 

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