[Nell]

Nice looking Shetlands.

I always love the shaggy look of the calves in their first year. Compliments on the naming -we too have an Annabel.

Interested to read they behave differently - as we've only ever had Shetlands, what are they doing that's not usual?

Sue

Not sure if it isn't usual, but the cow's battering the hell out of the stirk, even though they've been in the same herd since the stirk was born. Had to put the stirk in a separate pen, since she was getting shoved into the gates and walls, before she ends up injured. I'm wondering if it's learned behaviour though, as the cow herself was bullied by the other cattle, or whether she sees the stirk as a threat to the calf.

[Rosemary]

Ah, you bought them from Laura 

Finney House Fleur - the calf is by Collafirth Viking, same as my Annie. Nice grey bull that's been running with Factotum's cattle this year.

Are the other two registered - the stirk and the calf?

[Nell]

Ah, you bought them from Laura 

Finney House Fleur - the calf is by Collafirth Viking, same as my Annie. Nice grey bull that's been running with Factotum's cattle this year.

Are the other two registered - the stirk and the calf?

Yes we did.

The stirk and calf aren't registered yet, but they will be as soon as downsized is able to crack on with the paperwork. The sproglets have named the calf 'Annabel' and the stirk 'Abigail' though it's written down on the stirk's passport as 'Arnkatia' though she isn't registered. Thank you for the pedigree names though. 

Laura mentioned the calf's sire being called Viking, but I can't remember the name of the bull that Fleurie's currently 'in calf' to. He's a stunning animal, red, and I'm told isn't in any way related to the two bloodlines that have been used a lot.

[SallyintNorth]

They look great    Congratulations to you two - and to them three!   

[Factotum]

Sorry to hear the heifer's being bullied.

Our Shetlands have quite a rigid herd hierarchy - our herd started with 4 bulling heifers - the 'head' was the oldest when they arrived. Over the years the leadership of the herd has changed only twice, and the leader is now one of the original four, Saltire.

We run all of our different ages together - we have the first 4, and three generations of calves. The latest were born in March/April this year & were all sired by Viking. He has a very placid nature and is quite 'petite' for a bull - but there's no doubting his ability and his efficiency.

 When they are out in the fields there is little barging about. However if they are in the shed, there is a definite eating order for the hay - and the 'rights' of the dam are conferred onto her current calf. No other beast would attempt to push Saltire's calf away from the hay, and the under cow (Ailsa) waits with her calf (Cara) until the others have had their fill before eating at the hay ring.

I would guess that your heifer has lost the support of her dam and the cow is taking advantage of that. Maybe they'll be better once you can get them outside with more space.

Regards
Sue

[Rosemary]

Laura mentioned the calf's sire being called Viking, but I can't remember the name of the bull that Fleurie's currently 'in calf' to. He's a stunning animal, red, and I'm told isn't in any way related to the two bloodlines that have been used a lot.

Trondra Rudy 

[Nell]

Laura mentioned the calf's sire being called Viking, but I can't remember the name of the bull that Fleurie's currently 'in calf' to. He's a stunning animal, red, and I'm told isn't in any way related to the two bloodlines that have been used a lot.

Trondra Rudy 

You're good! 


Must look at joining up to the Association and educate myself. Thanks 

[downsized]

All cattle herds have a pecking order with a 'bully cow' but once the order is established there is little or no aggression until there is a challenge then it settles down again and as long as there is head space they feed together. Our Galloways, Blue greys and WB Shorthorns used to winter happily together and when outside with young calves they used to have a creche system with one or two cows minding the calves while the others got on with grazing, these calf-minders rotated. Used to love seeeing the calves belting round the field in a huge gang with the cows running after them telling them to behave

[Factotum]

Used to love seeing the calves belting round the field in a huge gang with the cows running after them telling them to behave

Yes that's great - we get great excitement when they are moved from one field to the next - they seem to do a mad dash around before settling down to the serious business of eating grass. The calves run with their tails held high in the air (like bovine warthogs), the ends flashing like small white flags as they charge about.

We also get the ' jumping up & down on one spot' excitement when they get some carrots.

Love having cattle about the place.

Sue

[SallyintNorth]

My favourite thing is watching cattle, especially calves, being let out to grass after a period being housed.   

Back to the bullying topic...  The explanation given above, of the heifer stirk having lost its mum's protection and therefore having to find its position as an 'only beast' makes perfect sense to me.

Val Porter  guru of cattle behaviour, explains that cattle do not have a straight pecking order A pecks B, B pecks C, C pecks D, so A in fact pecks B and C and D, B pecks C and D, etc, but highly individual interactions and statuses.  So that with cattle, A may bully B and D but not C, whereas B does bully C - and you can't predict whether D can bully C, you have to watch to find out. 

Val Porter makes the point that therefore introducing a single beast causes quite a bit of disruption, as it has to find its position with every other beast in the group.   Whether removing a beast causes the same amount of disruption I am not sure - but clearly if it leaves a youngster unsupported, then it's similar to introducing a beast.

Cattle welfare guidance requires all cattle to be kept in groups of their own age range, as a younger animal with a few older ones will be so bullied it may not get to food at all.  If you only have three beasts, then you can't do this, clearly - but then hopefully one bully cow won't stop both the other animals feeding completely.  It is best to keep a good eye on them though, until you are sure that the most timid animal is getting to eat and sleep enough.

[Rosemary]

We bought Henry, our bullock, at six / seven months - he's a year younger than Breeze and Blizzard. When we introduced him, they gave him a bit of a hard time but he got his hay seperately over last winter and now he's bigger than them and they're fine.

[downsized]

We've got the stirk right next to fleur and her calf, just a gate between them, once they've all settled in we'll try and reintegrate them and give them the whole area. Unfortunately the ground is absolutely sodden and would just turn to a quagmire if we put them out just now.

For 35+ years (after our cattleman retired) I managed our 140 Galloway, Blue grey and WB Shorthorn suckler cows plus their followers (herd founded in 1911) total cattle including followers around 300. I moved it to all spring calving (April) down at the lower farm where we grew all the fodder. We moved the cows with their calves (2 or 3 pairs at a time) once the calves were a couple of weeks old (May) once the 1200 BF ewes had finished lambing. The calves in one compartment, the cows in the other. They were seperated into sub herds of 15-25 cows on different hirsels of the hills (up to 1700ft), to run with different bulls. All were brough back down in November and run in fields for a couple of days to settle down before the calves were speaned and everything housed. The heifer stirks were kept on the hill to harden off before being drawn for stock and reintegrated to the adult herd the following spring. The bullocks were brought down and stored through the winter before being finished off grass. During calving we ran the cows through the handling system every second day and turned any coming close to calving out into the calving fields, these were walked round at least every two hours 24 hours a day.

So I think I have some experience of cattle behaviour, I just find the behaviour of Shetlands towards each other quite different from any other breed I've worked with (Lim, Angus....)

[Factotum]

So I think I have some experience of cattle behaviour,

Gosh, sounds like you're very experienced - you'll get loads of questions now about cattle stuff...


I just find the behaviour of Shetlands towards each other quite different from any other breed I've worked with (Lim, Angus....)

Fascinating - I wonder why the Shetlands are different?  Is it down to their hornedness (if that's a word)? Maybe there's some link to the harsh conditions on Shetland itself  - perhaps there's a survival of the toughest gene which makes the cows especially keen to protect their calves by getting themselves tot he top of the herd.

Hope your Shetlands sort out their order OK.

As for the ground - it's horrible out there - we live on a small farm just below a grouse moor - loads of peat and heather. The moor is awash, with the burns and drains in full torrent, and our top fields are getting very soggy from the run-off. Can't see it getting much drier before the Spring.

Sue

[downsized]

Factotum, I think you're right and it is a way the shetland has developed, it certainly makes as the best way to propagate an individual cow's genes. I believe they were always really a 'house cow', run in small groups or individuals in harsh conditions with limited resources, so an intolerance of others and guarding of those resources makes sense. It will be interesting to see whether this behaviour continues as this particular herd evolves. I'm pretty sure Fleur won't change but I think maybe Annie and Abi may, who knows. If we have to pen them individually in the winter so be it 

[downsized]

Making progress, Fleur took some haylage out of my hand this morning then stood back to let Annie do the same, Abi is a lot less nervous as well.