[Moleskins]

One of the fundamental questions that needs to be asked is why these incidents seem to be on the increase.
So please re read the title of the thread and can we consider the fundamental question ?

From the picture with the story, it looks very much as if there's a well used walk alongside the river, although it says this isn't a public footpath.
Why are these incidents on the increase?
Could it be the way we've bred stock they're more aggressive?

[YorkshireLass]

Could it be that people are disconnected and don't know how to "read" animals?
Could it be that more and more people are encouraged to go out and play in the country?
Could it more more and more reporting of the same number of incidents?


 

[lachlanandmarcus]

I think you are right Yorkshire Lass.
I dont think generally the stock are more aggressive, however they are a lot bigger (continental breeds) and some breeds are a bit more flighty (Simmentals for eg). I am happier with the horse when the neighbour has the Angus in the field than when it is the Charolais, I find the Angus curiouser but less flighty/unpredictable.

The issue is that with modern cars and modern 'leisure' footpaths originally used by farmer to reach stock, canalman to walk horse pulling barge or track used as a route to take the coffin to church are now used instead  by hundreds of people, often taking dogs with them even where there are cows and often calves. Also people have lost their knowledge of what is safe round animals and what isnt, and have a sense of 'right' to go where they please with dogs.
I dont think the cattle are behaving anything other than as cattle, we also dont know whether there have  been issues of dogs with those cattle in the past that the farmer isnt aware of etc.
It would be nice to walk my dog both directions from my house but I recognise that my neighbour is a cattle farmer, he breeds breeding bulls and therefore his fields are going to have cattle in, and I behave accordingly.

[Fowgill Farm]

One of the fundamental questions that needs to be asked is why these incidents seem to be on the increase.
So please re read the title of the thread and can we consider the fundamental question ?

From the picture with the story, it looks very much as if there's a well used walk alongside the river, although it says this isn't a public footpath.
Why are these incidents on the increase?
Could it be the way we've bred stock they're more aggressive?

Personally i don't think its anything to do with more aggressive stock, its the publics perception and misinterpretation of the 'Right to roam' laws. The public think they can now walk anywhere and thats why theres an increase in these incidents plus they are now more widely reported. Its an awful thing to happen but if she was somewhere she should not have been, That it was a 'well used' walking area is no excuse, the farmer probably allowed locals to use it but in the same context he was just as entitled to put his beast in there, well you pays your money you take your chance, harsh but a reality.
There is no easy solution all that can be done is to make the public more aware of the dangers and this in itself is difficult without making yourself liable in this if in doubt sue age we live in.
Mandy

[jaykay]

I think the increase is about public's misunderstanding of where they can go and what they can do too.

I think people think you have a right, more generally, to do what you want. If you want to walk through a field you well you have that right, why should anything stop you.

No sense of responsibilities balancing with rights, nor of maybe not getting your way all the time.

[omnipeasant]

I don't know how this topic got onto questioning farmers rights to graze animals in their own fields. The term dangerous animal is usually restricted to bulls, stallions and wild boar. (Someone will correct me if I am wrong)

If walkers were to campaign for cows with calves to be deemed dangerous the farmers would probably have to retaliate by applying to close the footpaths at calving time. It is usually only the first few days that a cow would be so calf proud that she would attack intruders. Anyway the main culprits for trampling are young heifers or steers.

Back to the topic, there should definately be education of how to pass cattle safely, especially with dogs. 

[Old Shep]

I think cattle are definitely less placid than they used to be, even milk cows.  As kids we would be sent down the field to walk the milk cows up to be milked (except if there was a newly calved heifer!)  Now they are brought in at speed with quads and I do think that has made a difference.   I know these were sucklers but they are still probably moved around with quads.


It's fairly easy to blame the "stupid public" but farmers sometimes get caught too.  My mother had a very near do, having moved some sheep at her sisters she took a short cut back not knowing there were sucklers in this very big field.  They soon came at her and would certainly have trampled her had she not had her sheepdog which she sent away from her to distract them whilst she legged it over the wall.  She only just got there before the cows!  This is a lady who had farmed all her life, not stupid at all.


I think farmers could put signs up to warn if there are cows and calves in the field and suggest it be avoided by people with dogs.  I certainly would find another route, or go back the way I came.

[colliewoman]

but we do put signs up, and clearly state that there is no public right of way. Still they walk through with their dogs.
 
I got screamed at years back by some bloke because, and I quote 'your sheep has just nearly killed my dog who was playing with it's lambs'. Again, no public access and I'm the one being threatened with being sued???
I had asked him repeatedly to put his dogs on leads as I had freshly lambed ewes in the field he insisted on trespassing and I got told to F*** off!
 
 

[Scotsdumpy]

Here's a story from the local newspaper here
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2964644

Folk are now enraged that warning signs have been taken down which warned people that seals could attack.
So, the reasoning is - the signs have been removed so the seals are no longer dangerous?

I think we live in a blame culture fuelled by the USA who sue just about anyone for anything.

[Small Farmer]

There is a limit to the number of warning signs one can stick on a gate post, especially to a field where no-one is supposed to have access.  But farming itself has a depressingly high injury rate so maybe there is something to be done. 


When I was a kid I remember playing on the completely unsecured building site next to my house in the evenings.  These days there'd be security fencing and warning signs, both for the public and for the workers on site.  Round here I rarely see builders without safety kit: equally I rarely see farmers using it except when mixing chemicals. 

[Old Shep]

but we do put signs up, and clearly state that there is no public right of way. Still they walk through with their dogs.
 
I got screamed at years back by some bloke because, and I quote 'your sheep has just nearly killed my dog who was playing with it's lambs'. Again, no public access and I'm the one being threatened with being sued???
I had asked him repeatedly to put his dogs on leads as I had freshly lambed ewes in the field he insisted on trespassing and I got told to F*** off!
 

well there really is no cure for stupidity is there! stupid man!!


Do you think people have got the wrong idea about open access? As I understand it there are designated areas of open access where you don't have to stick to foothpaths, but otherwise if there isn't a public right of way you are trespassing.

[Fowgill Farm]

Do you think people have got the wrong idea about open access? As I understand it there are designated areas of open access where you don't have to stick to foothpaths, but otherwise if there isn't a public right of way you are trespassing.

Definetly in my experience.
mandy

[Moleskins]

This thread has got a bit split here, a dog 'playing' with lambs is a totally different call to a person being trampled by cattle.
I'd shoot the dog, no question and the member of the public could sue. Or attack me and I'd shoot him too, probably gonna be ok on that one soon 
My point with the cattle was that my thinking is they're more aggressive than they used to be when I worked on a dairy farm as a child.
Thank you Shep for getting the point.
The answer to this problem of people being killed along with all the suffering to ALL parties that that must bring is  almost certainly not to stick a notice up.
IMHO cattle are more aggressive is it breeding is it feeding ?
On the dog thread one brand of dog food is seemingly known for the effect it has on dogs.

[sabrina]

Common sense is needed. Cows with calves are dangerous. nature tells them to protect their babies and a dog in the field is a threat. I was once walking along a country road next to a field of bullocks. I had my 3 dogs on the lead. One bullock jumped the fence and I had to run for my life with the dogs. Lucky for me I was near the farm and the guy came out on his quad bike to chase it. He said he had just bought them the day before and this was the 2nd time this bullock had come over the fence. It is very sad that this poor woman lost her life and I feel for her family 

[colliewoman]

My point with the cattle was that my thinking is they're more aggressive than they used to be when I worked on a dairy farm as a child.
Thank you Shep for getting the point.
The answer to this problem of people being killed along with all the suffering to ALL parties that that must bring is  almost certainly not to stick a notice up.
IMHO cattle are more aggressive is it breeding is it feeding ?
On the dog thread one brand of dog food is seemingly known for the effect it has on dogs.

I see what you are getting at now, apologies for being a bit dense.
I wonder if it is the fact that there isn't so much direct handling now? Quads and tractors now used instead of a cowman(woman) and a dog. Could it be that cattle aren't used to dogs like they used to be?? My Dad always brought the cows in with a dog, and they would barely look at another dog walking by.
I can't speak for the feed as the farmer I help still feeds straights and silage/hay.
What does go into cattle feed now? does anyone have a label handy with ingredients and percentages? I'll check the dairy nuts when I get home as that is what i feed the goats, saying that.....
I know if I feed Gill my AN goat on coarse mix, she is unhandleable. Not aggressive but bolshy rude and very strong. In short she would be dangerous even if she didn't mean it. If I compare her to a full grown cow, if the effects are the same then that could be a recipe for disaster.
You may be on to something