[domsmith]

Hi, i am new to horses and have just aquired 3 minature shetlands. purely as pets and for something to do. might see if they can help pull some things at some point.

I know they will survive on very poor grass and i need to watch them for weight etc. we have cows and sheep and so have tons of haylage in roundbales. my neighbour has thrown a fit at me intending to use the haylage for the ponies! she says they will get laminitas.

but surely its down to amount and quality of the haylage than just the fact that its haylage.

so i am now seeking advice on how to winter the little loves.

any advice will be appreciated

dominic

[sabrina]

I have fed haylage to my ponies when hay was in short supply. I have standard Shetlands. Fed in small nets so they cannot gorge and they should fine. Lots of breeders feed to their youngstock, even shetlands as it is better value and you need less hard food.

[Rosemary]

I have a Highland and a Shetland, and I wouldn't feed either haylage. I just feel it's too rich for them - Smokey got way fat on it one year. I feed a mix of hay and straw over winter - gives them plenty bulk to fill their bellies and keep them warm, without the calories.

But I'm no expert - just saying what works for mine.

[lachlanandmarcus]

You might get away with feeding haylage - but you might not. You certainly wouldntn be able to use it as the main forage source - they need something plainer than haylage - I use a mix of soaked late cut stalky hay and oat straw for my small cob.

[SallyintNorth]

Natives shouldn't need much if any supplementary feeding if they've access to pasture, even over winter.  They're designed to slim down over winter and fatten up over summer.  I expect to see ribs and be able to feel withers at the end of the winter - as long as the backbone is covered, they're fine.  My end-of-winter girth setting is a good 8" less than mid-summer!  (Shame on me letting them get so well-covered in summer - I know, they should get more exercise.)

I feed hay to the young Dales fillies in deep winter, but the Fells get nothing unless the ground is absolutely sodden or frozen solid.  If they're in or do need supplementation, it's the poorest hay I can find, or straw.  We have barley straw here for the cattle, so that's the straw they get, but I'd feed wheat straw if I had it.

BH did feed haylage to his Dales fillies when they were growing and we don't seem to have had any ill effects, but I wouldn't do it and I certainly wouldn't feed it to Shetlands. 

my neighbour has thrown a fit at me intending to use the haylage for the ponies! she says they will get laminitas.

but surely its down to amount and quality of the haylage than just the fact that its haylage.

Yes, to an extent.  If they're out and grazing, but do need extra (ground is sodden, frozen, or really grazed bare) a handful (and I mean a handful) of haylage once or twice a day would I suppose be ok.  If they're in, they'll need something to munch on as a horse's digestion needs forage going in on a very regular basis - and that's when it gets tricky to be giving enough to keep the digestion working but not so much they get fat.  It's tricky to keep the calories low enough feeding hay or straw, never mind haylage.

[domsmith]

Thanks for your answers , quite a range of opinions, but all seem to suggest keeping volumes down. we have plenty of grass, which again might be a problem.

so i was going to keep them out n daylight through the winter, then bring them in and leave them something to chew on, straw sounds likely or very limited haylage.

i take it they can do the same damage to themselves with too much grass? the grass is long at the moment but i would say it will be poor quality at this time of year.

Am i right in saying that they will put on weight and so i should see it before laminitas, or will the the laminitas just come on with no physical signs?

thank you again

dominic

[SallyintNorth]

They are more likely to come down with laminitis when they are overweight and underexercised, and when the sugars are rising in the grass.  But it can strike any time and without warning 

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about limiting access to rough grazing, if you have it, over winter, the grass will have little nutritive value and won't be growing.  You could probably leave them out 24x7 if the ground will stand it - we do ours unless there's some reason to have them stabled at night. 

Come spring when the grass starts to grow, then yes you have to be careful.  With my Fells, if I am worried about them getting too much I let them graze overnight when the sugars aren't rising and bring them in first thing before the sun warms the ground up.

In my view they're better with a good area of very poor grazing than being strip-grazed on better ground.  If they are roaming 10 acres to find their forage then they are getting a fair bit of exercise just grazing, whereas you see a lot of fat ponies with hardly enough grass to walk around on - keeps the input down but doesn't give them the exercise they must have in order to avoid laminitis.  I think Rosemary has hers on grass tracks around the steading - limited grass and they have to do some mileage in order to graze it.

If you only have better ground, then it's either graze it hard with your cattle and sheep before the ponies get on it, or limit their access to it.  And yes, if it's good ground, you probably need to limit input for miniature Shetlands over winter, too - although I don't have Shetlands myself but friends who do find they get fat on air.

[Rosemary]

I work on the principle that a horse needs at least 1% of its bodyweight in forage to keep the digestive system working and about 2-2.5% to maintain bodyweight (probably, no definitely less, for a native as they tend to hold condition).

Our three ponies collectively weight about 1100kg, so 1% is 11kg. In winter, I feed 3x3kg haynets plus two bucket feeds of Happy Hoof, Safe and Sound (anything for laminitic ponies and whatever is on special offer) with added minerals and garlic to make up the difference. Then whatever grazing there is in their paddock.

Then I just watch their condition. None are rugged and last year they were tightly strip grazed on one of the paddocks (what a good job they did on the grass too).

Laminitis is a funny thing. Fat horses seem to have a predisposition to it, but it can affect all sorts of horses. But keeping the weight down is essential for general health, not just laminitis.

As a note, we feed hay all year at 9kg a day and restrict grazing in an attempt to protect against grass sickness, which is most prevalent in the East of Scotland. In fact, our area is supposed to be the epicentre of grass sickness. Someone told me that it was horses coming back from the Crimea to Barry Buddon Army camp that brought it, but someone else told me it was thought to be linked to the spreading of guano on the fields here, that was shipped in to Dundee. Sorry to go off topic 

[sabrina]

In over 48 years  of being a pony and horse owner plus breeder I have only ever had one case of laminitis. Brought on by frosted grass in winter.

[clydesdaleclopper]

We have recently had to part with our Shetland as she couldn't manage with any grass at all (even in winter) - just hay - and therefore couldn't be a companion to the big fella.


The thing to look out for is event lines on the hooves - these tell you that they are reacting to the sugars in the grass or haylage or hay and you can then often take action before it gets to the stage of laminitis - unless it is a frosted grass scenario. It is not just fat ponies that suffer so you need to be very vigilant. Grazing muzzles can help reduce intake but they can't wear them all the time. As others have said turn them out at night and have them in during the day as the sugars are lower during the night.


You mention that the grazing is quite long - the more important thing is what type of grass it is. If it is predominantly rye grass then that is much higher in sugars than some of the wilder types of grass. You need to identify what type of grass it is and it may be worth getting a forage analysis done to check the sugar content of any hay that you feed as well.


Most importantly though - enjoy them 

[HelenVF]

We have a section a who had a touch of laminitis last year. Totally out fault as we put her on too rich grass through inexperience. Luckily, our farrier was very helpful!

She now gets some fast fibre in the morning, out all day in a small paddock and in at night with a haynet of hay.  She's given a good handful of hay at bedtime as well.  She is a nice weight and we are pleased with her condition, as is our farrier (who is now a good friend).

We have not had any laminitis this year (touch wood) so we must be doing something right.

Oh frosted grass can also be bad.  We don't turn her out if there is a frost.

Helen

[SallyintNorth]

In over 48 years  of being a pony and horse owner plus breeder I have only ever had one case of laminitis. Brought on by frosted grass in winter.

Tell me more about this lami-from-frosted-grass thing, please?

[lachlanandmarcus]

In over 48 years  of being a pony and horse owner plus breeder I have only ever had one case of laminitis. Brought on by frosted grass in winter.

Tell me more about this lami-from-frosted-grass thing, please?

The grass is stressed by the freezing and produces more sugars as a result. It seems to be more a problem as the grass starts to defrost, whether thats just cos the horse eats more of it at that point or whether the sugars peak at defrosting isnt certain. Also affects horses more who are in at night and then plonked out onto the icy/defrosting grass in the morning than it does horses who are out 24/7, maybe because the latter dont get a sudden spike of high sugars, they have a more gradual curve, and maybe are less ravenous to start munching too.
We have to bring in at night as our area has a high grass sickness risk (neighbour lost a horse to it) which means they need to reduce risk by having the horses off grass and eating other forage some of every day. So if turning out we try to wait until frost is melted and also we make sure there is forage in the field if they do have to go out onto frost, and also they have a small feed before going out so they arent quite so hungry.

[SallyintNorth]

Thanks llm.  I'll continue with my out-at-night regime, then, I think, for any that aren't out all the time.

[omnipeasant]

Haylage can be fed to natives and I certqainly feed it to my donkeys who are similar in dietasry requirements to the shetlands. BUT!! mine is not high quality, yes it is clean and smells nice but we get it quite late in the yrear so the feed value is not as great as spring got stuff.

I agree that clean straw is a good option.

Just re read this and it looks like I am drunk, but can't be botjhered to fiddle with the spelling