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Author Topic: a petition, please read.  (Read 1938 times)


  • Guest
a petition, please read.
« on: September 12, 2012, 10:17:40 pm »
for anyone interested. I think this is quite a biggie, so ive signed. i think the previous petition thread allowed the people who arent 'into' petitioning to make their reasons clear so id like to avoid all that this time, obviously constructive debate  would be great.
this is a  very serious matter, please do your own research.
here one link
the bit about medicine pricing doesnt bear thinking about.
this petition is from a highly respected global democratic pressure group, ive copied the email.
''Details are leaking of a top-secret, global corporate power grab of breathtaking scope -- attacking everything from a free Internet to health and environmental regulations, and we have just 4 days to stop it.

Big business has a new plan to fatten their pockets: a giant global pact, with an international tribunal to enforce it, that is kept top secret for years (even from our lawmakers!) and then brought down like a Death Star on our democracies. Big Tobacco, Big Oil, Big Pharma, Walmart and almost 600 other corporate lobbyists are all in on the draft -- including limits on smoking laws, affordable medicines and free speech on the Net.

The latest round of negotiations ends in just 4 days -- but outcries in each of our countries could shake the confidence of negotiators and scuttle the talks forever. Let's get to a million against the global corporate takeover. Sign below and forward widely. Avaaz will project our petition counter on the walls of the conference so negotiators can see the opposition to their plan exploding in real time:

The deal, called the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), is written to protect investors from government regulation, even if that regulation is passed in the public interest. Leaked versions suggest the TPP would undermine protections for air and water safety and reintroduce measures from the US Internet freedom attack as well as steamrolling efforts to produce generic affordable medicines. Worse still, lawmakers who fail to conform to the TPP’s rules face sanctions in an international tribunal -- a place where corporations can sue us for deals previous governments signed in secret!

Negotiators say this is just a trade agreement, written to facilitate investment and profit for all. But the leaked draft imposes so many limits on citizen protections, it's clear this "trade" agreement is skewed to put corporate profit above people's needs -- that's not surprising since it's been drafted in secret with almost 600 corporate lobbyists.

But there is hope: Australia is bucking against the international tribunal system, and New Zealand is objecting to the takeover of its medicine-pricing protections that keep drugs affordable. Massive public opposition, casting doubt over each country's ability to sell TPP at home, could derail the talks for good. Sign the petition now, and forward widely -- the delegates and lobbyists are watching the wave of opposition grow in real time:
the petition reads:
 ''As concerned global citizens, we call on you to make the TPP process transparent and accountable to all, and to reject any plans that limit our governments' power to regulate in the public interest. The TPP is a threat to democracy, undermining national sovereignty, workers' rights, environmental protections and Internet freedom. We urge you to reject this corporate takeover.''
thanks for reading, i thought long and hard about whether to start this topic, and came to the conclusion that every signature matters so even if only one person signs it as well as me then ill be happy. thanks :tree:


  • Guest
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2012, 12:55:24 am »
and a link from a new zealand site, they are much more aware of this issue and have been actively demonstrating.


  • Joined Mar 2011
  • Dolau, Llandrindod Wells,Powys
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 07:52:08 am »
Done . with comment.


  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Aberdeenshire
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 01:12:44 pm »
I'd seen  that before and hadn't got round to signing yet... Thanks for the reminder!

Not that I necessarily believe that our government will regulate in our interest if given the chance - but then, I'm a born cynic.


  • Joined Feb 2011
  • South Wales
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2012, 01:33:49 pm »
Done  :thumbsup:
Tunkey Herd - registered Kune Kune & rare breed poultry -


  • Guest
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2012, 04:34:21 pm »
the background research seems to hint that instead of our government being able to sanction corporations in cases of wrongdoing, the tables are being turned so these companys will be able to sanction the governments instead. so the government pays the price the companys decide or they withhold things like medicine.


  • Joined Oct 2009
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2012, 06:59:32 pm »
Sadly i can't sign with this mobile . Tried to a few times but no go .
Best get me herb bed done !


  • Guest
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2012, 07:59:45 pm »
Signed! :thumbsup:xx


  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2012, 10:11:13 pm »
I agree with your argument - but essentially it does leave me wondering who would develope drugs and medicines without that call of 'profits'?

Could we really rely on governments to produce such goods? Equaly and fairly distribute them?  Look on private companies to develope them for a loss or as a charity??

As I say I agree with your argument - but the solutions to the whole thing - how would that happen?


  • Guest
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2012, 08:48:35 am »
you need to read it though properly,
these companys are seeking to remove
  • stronger restrictions on foreign investments
  • tobacco control laws
  • restrictions on sale and manufacture of GMOs and labeling of GM foods
  • the Pharmac scheme for buying drugs and subsidies
  • the ability to reverse privatisations in the future
  • stronger regulation of mining
  • parallel importing, especially for music and computer programmes
  • Intellectual property protection in the digital media
  • if government doesnt allow them to do these things they will sanction government, by higher prices.
    its the exact reversal of how things work now.

the great composto

  • Guest
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2012, 09:20:49 am »
Just peeking over the other side of this well balanced story, my question is, is this really world domination stuff? - OK USA is in on it and a few countries but isnt the real reason protecting western trade from China?

BTW it really bugs me that this has been going on since 2005 and all of a sudden someone says lets whip up a bit of hysteria and see in we can get a million signatures in 3 days! 

1 million from the world population doesnt seem like much of an opposition.


  • Guest
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2012, 09:47:50 am »
that cos negotiations were hidden up until a few days ago, there still hasnt been any diclosure.


  • Guest
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2012, 09:51:39 am »
from the gaurdian:
The pharmaceutical industry is also likely to be a big gainer from this pact. It has decided that the stronger patent rules that it inserted in the 1995 WTO agreement don't go far enough. It wants stronger and longer patent protection and also increased use of "data exclusivity". This is a government-granted monopoly, often as long as 14 years, that prohibits generic competitors from entering a market based on another company's test results that show a drug to be safe and effective.
Note that stronger copyright and patent protection, along with data exclusivity, is the opposite of free trade. They involve increased government intervention in the market; they restrict competition and lead to higher prices for consumers.
In fact, the costs associated with copyright and patent protection dwarf the costs associated with the tariffs or quotas that usually concern free traders. While the latter rarely raise the price of a product by more than 20-30%, patent protection for prescription drugs can allow drugs to sell for hundreds, or even thousands, of dollars per prescription when they would sell for $5-10 as a generic in a free market. Patent protection increases what patients pay for drugs in the United States by close to $270bn a year (1.8% of GDP). In addition to making drugs unaffordable to people who need them, the economic costs implied by this market distortion are enormous.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 10:06:41 am by deepinthewoods »

the great composto

  • Guest
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2012, 10:06:00 am »
that cos negotiations were hidden up until a few days ago, there still hasnt been any diclosure.
No thats not strictly true.  There have been leaks about it for quite a while - agreed, the specifics havent been clearly understood but I still say if only 1 million of the WORLD population are opposed ( or can be panicked in to thinking they are opposed) then its not going to stop it.
My opinion only - I am not disagreeing with you.


  • Joined May 2011
  • Yorkshireman on a hill in wet South Wales
Re: a petition, please read.
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2012, 10:31:11 am »
Interesting petition  had a good read and had a good think of the other side of the coin .
 governments spend your money in social engineering so to speak ( sometimes imorally ).
Businesses are just that ...... busineses  trying to make as much profit a they can ( sometimes imorally )
 I'm not sure each can exist without the other  but with businesses being the dog and the governments being the tail .
 Re internet petitions .. not a very good indicaton as to signatures or representations as some people have zillions of multiple ID's that change Ip addresses .
I do agree that big businesses are getting bigger ... 16 yrs ago I was at an international business  seminar where one of the guest speakers who was a multi billionaire ( UDS$ ) person who told his companies which tree to shake said that within 30 years there will perhaps be only six or seven major players in medium to large enterprises everthing else will be tied or dependent to one of these  by some device .
Going on past and current performances I for one wouldn't trust any government to set the criteria for breakfast let alone  running  a passel of businesses .
I'm also very aware of the conspiricy theorists who are seeking to decry any and everything.
 who keep sending out these petitions /protests.
Liike the revolutionaries  , come the revolution we'll take over  and then nthey become leaders who get taken over by revolutionaries.
I think we need a better perspective & a better thought out method of regulation that is watertight ..if we can find the people with this calibre of thinking for it does not have to be draconian actions & legislation does it ???? .
I think I'll need to reread things a few more times so as to try and take onboard what the petition is saying and its implications , before I make my reasoned decision .
International playboy & liar .
Man of the world not a country


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