[SallyintNorth]

So, Muscovies ordered ( goosepimple), we've decided to make a 'proper' duck pond near the farmstead.  The idea is that they'll then be happy to stay handy, not need locking up and roost safely on the rooftops - like goosepimple's do.  (There are any amount of burns, becks and gutters in surrounding fields, so if they don't like the pond, they'll be off!)

Initially I was planning a duck pond-cum-pig wallow, but BH has put his foot down on that.  No pigs messing it up; only the ducks and the geese (which we don't have yet, either, but have been wanting for a while) to use the pond.  Pigs to have a seperate wallow and all four-legged hooved creatures to be fenced away from the pond.

I have looked at previous threads on this subject before posting.

I have a load of questions (and probably will have more as I learn more), so these are my starters:

• How big (area) and deep does the pond need to be?  I'm getting a breeding trio of Muscovies and there will inevitably be other ducks in time and eventually some geese.  But not huge numbers...
• Will I be best to use a pond liner? Are there different types?  Which is best?
• The ground it is going in is wet reshy pasture.  There are stones (big ones, mostly) in the peaty ground, and plenty moles, so the stones we don't pick at the time of construction will make their way to the surface in time.  I have a choice of a spot under some trees and another spot in the open.  Which spot should I choose?  And what can I do to prevent the stones (and tree roots) puncturing the liner?
• We get plenty rain so the idea is the pond will fill from rainfall and there'll be an outflow into the pig wallow.  We will have a hose available for the odd day when the rains fail us...    Reading previous discussions, I may need to think about collecting rainwater from elsewhere and routing it to the pond... which may mean I have to re-site the thing completely...  It'd still be on the same sort of ground, though.
• BH wonders about how to keep the grass a reasonable length if we're debarring 4-hooved creatures.  Will the ducks and eventual geese be able to keep on top of it?  Otherwise is it practical to use my wee, light-footed 'geeps' (Castlemilk Moorits) to occasionally eat the grass down without damaging the pond or its banks?  I suppose I'll just have to strim / scythe reshes.
• The Muscovies are expected to roost on rooves, but other duck breeds and geese will need housing?  Is it practical and advised to have the house(s) close to the pond, in the same fenced enclosure, or better to have it further away?  Are there techniques for pond construction which make it easier to round them up at bedtime? 

And please proffer any advice / experience whether or not I've asked the question.  I'm at the absorbing-all-info stage at the moment!

[Fleecewife]

    We had muscovies once and made them a shallow (1') pond, lined with concrete.  The advantage of concrete is that you can drain it and sweep it out (and rocks don't come up from frost heave).  Ducks, and in particular muscovies, are unbelievably poopy, both in and out of the pond - and their house if they have one.  I don't think your sheep would thank you for letting them graze around the pond - we used the lawn mower to keep the grass down and put the clippings on the compost heap - great activator.
We ran a hose from the overflow of one of our water collecting barrels, so the pond was well flushed during heavy rain, and we managed to keep it quite clean that way.  Muscovey drakes eventually get too lazy to go in the pond, so it's mainly the ducks and ducklings (once feathered up - fluffy ones sink) which actually swim in it, and the occasional sheep that goes for a paddle.

[graham-j]

Hi,nice Idea about the overflow hose.
I keep my ducks on concrete full time,as fleece wife has said the make an unbelievable amount of mess.I hose it off every day into a central small pond then just pump the water slurry onto various raised beds.

Graham.

[jaykay]

Always make a pond as big as you possibly can. It needs to be 3ft deep in places - that's for the other inhabitants of the pond, so they don't get frozen solid in winter.  And have a shallowly sloping end for things to get in and out. Definitely with an inflow and an outflow if you can arrange it, will keep it much nicer - ducks are mucky things.

If wanting to use a sheet liner, butyl is the best but expensive.

Flat stones round the outside (if using a liner) will protect the edge and quickly acquire moss between them etc so don't look so bad.

Your geeps or geese will keep the grass down, if it's cut to begin with. BH is right about the mess the pigs would make of an artificial pond 

But. I'm not sure I'd start with Muscovies if you want a mixed flock of ducks and geese. The drakes can be quite agressive. My limited experience of those two young ones is that they picked fight with my hens and other ducks (literally, pitched battles!) and Goosepimple's fight with her ganders.

That said, Muscovies in themselves are interesting and come in many nice colours so maybe you just have mixed Muscovies?

[SallyintNorth]

Thanks Fleecewife  and jaykay    Very helpful responses.  And thanks, graham-j, too - I do know they can make a lot of mess!

I will take advice from groundworks fella on whether it could / should be concreted.  It may be better and cheaper than butyl, especially as I do want it as large as we can practically make it.

jaykay, I knew you would warn about Muscovies and other breeds!  I love my Muscovies, have reallly missed having them about, and am so excited  to be picking up my new ones soon.  Maybe we wait to introduce new breeds until the Muscovy drake gets big and lazy?   

[goosepimple]

Our breeding drake has had a couple of fights with our gander but that was only during the breeding season earlier this year, they all settle down quite quickly in May and there's been no probs since.  Muscovy drakes don't often like females of another species though and our previous drake who was quite old (don't know if they're like cockerels and get more aggressive the older they get) made for the female geese when they first arrived, we got rid of him.  Our present one seems quite happy with the status quo.  We don't have other breeds of duck so not sure how they would be with others, the wild mallards are quite happy to swim in and out of the Muscovy groups though.
 
They have a good plunge in our pond - disappearing completely under water having fun so I would say to have it a couple of feet deep or deeper if poss.
 
Can you divert/secure a bit of a beck Sally?  Then you'd have an in and out flow which is easiest.  Fleece's idea of the overflow would be useful.  If there is other water nearby they'll go there anyway if you like it or not. 
 
Pond liners - concrete is pretty permanent would be my only concern, cleaning is a hassle and it does have to be done quite often.  I would keep any housing near but not too near that it becomes a mud slide from it to the pond.
 
Our geese (same as Jaykays) are good at chomping but if it's over a large area then you will still have to strim but they have big clumsy feet that like to trample it all down too.
 
We have a goose house that we put them in when they had their young but generally they don't use it, not even in snowy weather did they look for shelter and when you sink your fingers into that down you can tell why - super cosy.  They have the run of our 5 acres and do what they like treating the place like a health spa - they do tend to come for a 5 minute bullying session on the pond once a day, but the ducks know the score and know they'll buzz off.  I have only seen them mate on water so you may need a couple of feet of depth for when they get fruity.
 
I'll be bringing 18 ducks for sale on Friday, plus your 3 - think we'll bring them all in carriers in the trailer.  Just let me know what you want to do.  If you're worrying about the pond thing in time for them coming I wouldn't bother - a make do will suit them for a couple of weeks, I would get something decent within a month though.

[SallyintNorth]

goosepimple, that's all very helpful, thanks.   

I was hoping that if we had a large enough pond for the amount of waterfowl and planted it up properly it would form an ecosystem and not need cleaning out.  Is that a forlorn hope?  If so, I'd have to make a smaller pond so I can empty it and clean it out. 

No becks right near the farmstead, unfortunately; at least not on ground we can dig.  I am wanting (a) that the ducks treat the farm as home (and not the house and buildings of our neighbours opposite... ) and (b) that we get to see them!  But if they'll prefer becks to a pond, then they'll spend most of their time in the Glen (which is in a scheme, so I can't dig there), or in the three fields over the road, two of which are ours and one we rent for summer grazing but is the grounds of the people in the house there.  If they can't be made to prefer being on the farmstead then they'll have to be kept at home by constraint, or I will have to give up trying to keep Muscovies. 

[jaykay]

What's the water supply at the house? Could you use that to make an inflow and outflow?

[SallyintNorth]

What's the water supply at the house? Could you use that to make an inflow and outflow?

Heavily chemicalled mainswater - which we pay for, too, being a farm.  So we were hoping to use rainfall mainly (we get plenty  ) on financial, ecological and environmental grounds.

[jaykay]

Heavily chemicalled mainswater

oh, yuk!

I'm very lucky just being able to divert the beck through the house taps 

[SallyintNorth]

Heavily chemicalled mainswater

oh, yuk!

I'm very lucky just being able to divert the beck through the house taps 

You certainly are.  This is the first time I've lived with mains water since the early 80s, and I am not enjoying it.

[doganjo]

Me neither - I hate the chlorine smell as i turn the tap on - I never drink plain water now.  Guess the hens, cat and dogs will just have to put up with it.  I have a duck question, will start a new thread.

[SouthMains]

we have 2 geese, and have made temporary pond for them until we get the digger working again to dig the big pond.  we decided that deep was important so went with just over 3 feet deep and the size was then determined by the bit of membrane we had left over from tanking the floor in the house.  Unfortunately this has resulted in a very pretty pond which both geese happily fit in but when they do there wing flapping game (to get themselves really clean) they can empty about 1/2 the pond out. I at first thought we had a leak until I realised the water level doesn't go down at night only during the day.  So my advice would be as well as deep in areas make sure you have a  good big surface area so as to keep as much water in the pond as possible

[goosepimple]

Oh yes, have about a dozen ducks going up and down the pond doing that with their wings training themselves to fly .... it's like a big party out there - they just have the best time - snacking away, sleeping away, in for a dip, bit of sun/rain bathing and start all over again, treat the place like a health spa