[ZaktheLad]

Having always had Charollais tups in the past, plus 1 x texel many years ago, I am looking for a change for my girls this year.   I have been having a good trawl on sites for various breeds and I am very interested in the Hampshire Down or the Suffolk as a replacement tup.   I lamb my ewes in the last week of March/beginning of April and this year I have 10 ewes, these are a mix of charollaisx, suffolkx and a couple of ryelandx (with 1 x pure suffolk).   

I wondered what others experiences are of the Hampshire Down and Suffolk as sires.  I favoured the Charollais over the texel originally due to the easier lambing (smaller heads and shoulders of the lambs) and would like any information from those that have lambed HD cross lambs and any issues associated with lambs being too big to lamb the ewe without assistance.    Whilst I realise that there are sometimes occasions when it is necessary to step in and help a struggling ewe, I do try and leave them to it and not interfere too much as I have in the past caused more problems by getting involved too early on and regretted it deeply afterwards.

Also, if I purchased an unregistered tup from a registered/pedigree flock, could I then register it myself?   I am hoping to purchase a ram lamb rather than an older tup - would 10 ewes be too many for him the first year?  The age of ewes ranges from 8 through to 2T(?) (born March 2011) (her first lambing next Spring).   

Thanks for any help!

[robert waddell]

you don't say were you are     the breeder registers the pedigree otherwise it would be open to abuse by all      10 is about right for a first timer    we have a pedigree Hampshire tup lamb that has been weight recorded and not forced on with creep or concentrates but we are in central Scotland

[ZaktheLad]

Thanks for the clarification on registration.  I am located near Bristol in SW England so Scotland a bit too far 

[omnipeasant]

Hampshire down offspring are not difficult to lamb, but the lambs are not as vigorous as welshies and some other breeds so you might need to be on hand to encourage and get them suckling.

What did you mean by regretting helping a struggling ewe? was it mis mothering problems.? if you do have to lamb something always be sure to bring the little un round to her head and cover her nose with the slime off the lamb. Usually it is better to interfere than not if you think you have a problem. But  careful observation is your best lambing tool.

[Dougal]

I've worked both hampshires and suffoks in the past. I found the hampshires really fantastic at lambing. Up and sucking with no assistance. I found the suffoks a lot dozier and lack luster but once they get going the growth rates are fairly comparible. The hampshires didn't seem to make such good store lambs, fattened great off their mothers but any that were lambed later and so were fattened through october and november off of grass were outperformed by the suffok crosses.
Used a cross hampshire beltex for a number of years and again was very very impressed. great carcass, hardy and vigourous and made good money in the store ring.
You'll be fine with a ram lamb for your numbers. My concern would be that (and I found the hampshires especially bad for this) the tups were far too fat at the time of purchase and we had to take them home, cut the feed down hard and try and get some of the fat off them or they tended not to work. Either they were too heavy for the ewes or they felt lazy I'm not sure which. It is because of this I'd be looking to get your tup home asap so you can make sure he is in the correct condition for tupping.
To cross charollais ewes both will do well, although as a personal preference I'd be using a white face tup... but then i'm bias 

[ZaktheLad]

Not mis-mothering.  I had a ewe that had her 1st lamb with no probs.  A 2nd bag arrived - I waited for 20 mins but nothing despite her straining.  I put a couple of fingers inside and could feel the front feet and nose so thought she would be ok as lamb appeared to come in correct position.  Left for another 30 mins with her straining but nothing.  Felt again and decided to pull gently on legs to try and bring lamb out.  I am sure I felt the lamb pull backwards so believed it was alive and with gentle pressure and working with her pushing, the lamb - a very large and smashing ewe lamb was born - dead.   I swung it around etc but could not get it to breathe.  It's belly seemed full of fluid and I am convinced that I killed it by perhaps breaking the umbilical cord inside instead of waiting for the ewe to deliver on her own.  I still feel really guilty about it, made worse by the fact that I took the dead lamb away and put it just outside on the barn floor whilst I dealt with the ewe and 1sty lamb, only to return a few minutes later to see that my lurcher had gently covered the dead lamb over with straw from the floor.  Bless him, he loves helping at lambing time, but that little act did make me cry buckets.

[SallyintNorth]

If the lamb was coming forwards I don't think you can blame yourself.  I would probably have helped exactly as you did; I certainly wouldn't wait longer than an hour if no progress is being made - and BH, a lifelong farmer, makes sure anything that's started lambing is lambed before he goes to bed - and doesn't wait up to achieve this, he pulls 'em out so he can go to bed!  He wouldn't do this if it resulted in dead lambs.  (It's wise really, you don't help the flock by getting overtired waiting up for one lamb.)

So don't blame yourself. 

Any lamb coming backwards needs to be out, and fast, and any lambs behind a one that was delayed need to be out, and fast.  Most shepherds will, I think, deliver 2nd and 3rd lambs in triplets if the mother isn't clearly making very active progress, and will want to see the 2nd twin coming along pretty promptly after the first, too.

[SteveHants]

I would say that you need to be careful when buying your tup. Don't get hung up on breed for a terminal sire, look at performance (unless you have a reason to - lambs with a  black face seem to do well at my local mart for example, so this could be a reason for selecting a suffolk but I didn't). I would also avoid the show-ring and buy off farm so you can see the system they are being grown on yourself.


Lots of terminal sire breeders record performance now, and there are many who select for traits like easy lambing. I'm particularly taken with NZ Suffolks and Texels and Meatlincs as terminal sires, but I specifically want an easy lambing because I'm outdoors.


It is perfectly feasable to get lambs who will 'do' off grass, so try to avoid breeders who routinely feed concentrates - although you never really know.


Good news is a good commercial tup, bought off-farm will cost you less than a fancy one bought through the show ring.

[FiB]

Following this with greatfulness - I'm sure there are lots of other greatful wathers too - Thanks for all your wisdom, TASers.  I am still undecided wither to buy a beulah or lleyn ram lamb for my shearling flock (8 Beulah and 5 lleyn) or hire one in this year.

[omnipeasant]

I don't think it was your fault either Zak. Probably one of those lambs that had something not quite right and okay while the umbilical was keeping it alive.

[ZaktheLad]

Thanks for your replies - much appreciated and extremely useful.   I am definately going to purchase a tup off farm as I like to get an idea of where the animal is actually coming from and also prefer to see it in a natural state before preened in readiness for the showring.   I have arranged to go and see a Hampshire Down next weekend so will keep you posted. 

[SallyintNorth]

Following this with greatfulness - I'm sure there are lots of other greatful wathers too - Thanks for all your wisdom, TASers.  I am still undecided wither to buy a beulah or lleyn ram lamb for my shearling flock (8 Beulah and 5 lleyn) or hire one in this year.

I think I've posted before about the risks of hiring and disease.  Normally you'd quarantine an animal coming onto your holding before mixing with your flock, and possibly get some tests done in a breeding ram.  I don't think you can do this with a hired one, and he'll have been on a number of farms, exposed to all their endemic bugs. 

[landroverroy]

  I am still undecided wither to buy a beulah or lleyn ram lamb for my shearling flock (8 Beulah and 5 lleyn) or hire one in this year.

If it were me, I would go for the Lleyn as it's a meatier animal than the Beulah so you get better lambs.
In answer to your query Zac about the ram lamb - I had one cover 30 ewes last year, and he didn't hang about. I've never had such a compact lambing period - they all lambed within 3 weeks.
So 10 ewes shouldn't be any problem.

[Padge]

After much deliberation we settled on a Hampshire tup as the cross to our Lleyn and Suffolk ewes.......we read loads on finishing conformation etc etc
We've had him 2 years now and had some cracking lambs....However...this year we had to assist far too many ewes at lambing.....not serious intervention   tho none at all would be preferable.....we found that the ewes struggled to pass the first part of the head comfortably and lammies were stuck as such...Hampshires have a wide flat forehead........we also found this year   having learnt a little more about our land and addressing some issues that the pure Lleyns have come alomg much better than the crosses producing good meaty well shaped lambs...fortunately we had four girls which we shall retain for future breeding tho by that time we shall have to look for new tup for them
We are considering a Chatollais ram for future meat lambs

[Mallows Flock]

Hi Zak 
I am dead close to you - Shepton Mallet. Both my shearers have a selection of rams that they will hire out to people on occassion. If you are interested, gimme a shout and I will pass you their tel no's. Both are lovely guys, absolutely adore their sheep and very respectful to animals. And they will give you lots of advice and support.
Hope it all works out
Lisa x