[Mickey]

Hi,
We've decided to look for a smallholding before we're too old to start! The magazines have been purchased and we are looking for properties so that we get some idea of what the likely costs are to be. As part of our trawl around the 'net I have come across this excellent site and thought perhaps I could ask a couple of 'early' questions I have.

• How many acres should we look for in a smallholding for it to be worthwhile?
  Our intent is just to have somewhere to live and have a few animals, perhaps chickens, a couple of pigs and a few dogs. I'd like to perhaps have a polytunnel or two for growing fruit and veg but we're not looking to have a business. 
• Any recommended reading, magazines or websites for the beginner?

Thanks,
Mickey

[bloomer]

as many as you can afford you'll find ways to fill them, obviously a limit will depend on how much time you will have to work on the holding with other commitments in your life...

[Rosemary]

Well, this website - lots of articles by clicking on the buttons at the top of the page 

You don't say where you are, but we also run Introduction to Smallholding courses 

The one piece of advice is buy as much of the best land that you can afford. You can change a house but not the land - and it shrinks around you. We started with an acre, now have 12 and if I could get some more, I would, so that I could have more cattle. If you have too much land to start with, you can rent it out - but you'll find ways to use it over time.

[Mickey]

Blimey you guys are quick! Thanks for those replies, the first places we've looked at on the web seem to have about 2 acres. My thoughts are that this is quite small and that perhaps around 5 acres would be useful? I don't know if we would end up with cows although it could happen in a few years time.

We are in the NW (Cheshire) but currently considering southern Scotland as it seems to have quite a few places on the market. Our intent is to take a drive around the borders as we don't know the area. We'll definitely consider the courses mentioned, my wife has already been to a few at the local colleges in Cheshire and enjoyed every minute of them.

[Rosemary]

Blimey you guys are quick! I don't know if we would end up with cows although it could happen in a few years time.

Nothing else to do 

Don't rule out cows - they are luuuuvvely

[Mickey]

In my head I think that we will probably end up with the lovely cows  So, any more ideas of how much land is a realistic start, would 2 acres be sufficient or am I right to think it wouldn't be enough? As an aside we wouldn't need to make any money from the smallholding, it is more of an enjoyment/lifestyle wish but it would need to occupy me for most of the day.

[Possum]

Rosemary's right about the quality of the land. When we were looking for our smallholding we saw several properties that had very steep land, or very shaded, or wet or wooded. In one case, all four of these. I couldn't have done much with them however many acres there were.


In the end we have started with 2 acres of good flat permanent pasture. This is enough to raise two weaners ,two lambs, several chickens and lots of fruit and veg growing. We've just put up a 25x12 ft polytunnel and so far it is definitely keeping us occupied for most of each day.


This site is great for learning all that is needed. Also Country Smallholder magazine. Also worth checking your library for the many books that have now been written about smallholding.

[omnipeasant]

Sometimes properties with more land sell more cheaply than 2 acres. You can always rent some out. Good luck with your new adventure.

[Bramblecot]

Hi  ,  If you are wanting to do fruit/veg and keep a few chickens, then 2 acres will keep you occupied for most of the day - especially if you have a nice polytunnel to work in  .  But if you want to get into the whole idea of keeping pigs/sheep/cattle/horses, then you need to consider rotation grazing and growing enough grass to make hay/silage for winter feeds - in that case buy as much as you can!  Good luck and enjoy the lifestyle

[tizaala]

You will pay more per acre for better quallity land, `severely dissadvantage` is the general clasification for most of our area (MidWales) but it does grow sheep well, Another thing to consider is the seasonal changes, Spring starts in Cornshire and works it's way up country at 2mph , so , Scottish midge laden summers start later and end earlier , and winter is more severe and longer lasting, the gulf stream keeps the west coast warm enough to grow palm trees around the Largs area, complete with free protien in the form of all the midges you can eat + some, Property buying comes under a different set of rules when it comes to making offers,
There are still a few bargains to be had in Wales if you know where to look , and the NHS is free prescriptions and helicopter rides. Further south , Devon and Cornwall is a lot warmer. East Anglia can have the wettest , coldest , bone numbing winters.
10 to 20 acres will allow you to follow your dream, good luck . 

[SallyintNorth]

How exciting to be at the beginning of your journey!

I would absolutely echo the 'best ground you can' sentiment.  I am lucky enough to live on an upland farm of several hundred acres.  We keep a few pigs on the side of our commercial beef and sheep enterprise, but in truth our ground isn't suited to pigs; it's too wet - "severely disadvantaged", all of it.

I would think 5 acres of good ground would probably be pretty tight if you want cows.  (You can't keep just one, they need another of their own kind for company, as do most species.)  Others who are at that end of the spectrum will be along to comment in due course, I am sure.  One thing they'll tell you to think about is whether you are happy to buy in your winter forage (hay, silage); if you want to make your own you'll need ground for that too - although sometimes you can buy a 'standing crop' from a local farmer, which might suit you.  And if you are thinking about livestock, you will want buildings for storing fodder and for winter housing - they're expensive to build and need planning permission, so it'd be better to start with holding that has a byre and a barn if possible.

As to other reading - have an explore of the books listed on this site http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/books/ (there isn't a tab for Books, must mention that to Dan...)

If you haven't come across it yet, the John Seymour Complete Book of Self-Sufficiency is a great book.  I'll stick my neck out and say it's completely infeasible to do what he outlines in 5 acres, and some of what he advocated in the orginal version is now illegal or considered inhumane - but it's still a grand book for a really good intro into every aspect of 'The Good Life'.  As the review on this site says, "Every sentence not only useful but interesting."  Just make sure you read it with a very healthy helping of scepticism.

[Sylvia]

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's books are useful and well written.

[nic99]

Once you get started you will want more and more and more and more............... and wish that you had bought more land.
We have 40 acres, most of it unusable in its present state (needs clearing and fencing), but still I would love more land, just for all the possibilities that would come with it. Don't be put off by land that is unused and has overgrown. You will likely get it cheaper and you can clear it with pigs, eat them, then seed it to have sheep/cattle afterwards (that's our plan anyway).
I second the view to look for somewhere that already has outbuildings. We are having to build a barn - very expensive!

[Castle Farm]

It's not so much how many acres you need, it's how much money will you have 'spare' after you have bought them to repair and renew everything that needs doing on your new place.

Take off your rosy coloured glasses. Your not going to earn a living off it unless your able to come up with a plan that no other local has going already.

If you find a place, besides the house look at the buildings and fences as they will add a huge amount to your spend.

Do not fall into the usual smallholder trap and carry passengers in livestock as it's pointless keeping an animal that earns it's keep to waste it on another that doesn't. Before you know where you are your a charity case for lost causes.

Stay focused, Check topography on the internet and save yourself hours and hours of traveling to the back of beyond for a place that is totally different to the speck that the estate agent sends you.

It took us 3 years and 36 visits to find the right place.

[ellied]

Most places with 2-3 acres are priced for lifestyle ie a couple of kiddies ponies or some homegrown veg and a few chickens.  It is possible to do more with it but most don't and the prices are high by comparison.  My advice would be to look at 10-15 acres if you can, as that is more than most commuting workers can manage effectively and you say you want to be occupied most of the day - if you start small you can rent excess in return for help with management of the land and an experienced advisor on hand is a blessing when you start out.  You can then take over more of it yourself if/when you want to, and still reduce again in times when you want less work or more income/help.

I started with rented land, then bought 7 acres with a small shed, then moved to where I am which is 10 acres with a house.  For most of the 10+ years I've been here I was also renting another 20 acres and if I'd been able to buy more acreage here I would have - especially when I was also still working and had the money but not the time to work it Losing the 20 acres was a great hardship at the time, tho it was money down the drain maintaining someone else's land and driving to and from it every day - if I'd found a place with 20-50 acres I'd have snapped it up but my budget was limited, even working, by the mortgage only being related to the house, not the land and any potential income from it.  Buying adjacent land to expand is almost invariably impossible, so if you do want more, you're adding travel and time costs to whatever you produce, on a daily basis.  So buy as much as you can acreage wise, everything else costs time and money but you can work on it or neglect it for a while, but you can't create it from thin air!