[salopman]

www.milkmyths.org.uk

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but just check out the nanny state report and video on the above welfare organisation report in the daily mail last week, the conditions are awful how can they keep goats like this??

[jaykay]

I can't click on the link. Emotionally not practically.

Who is it keeping goats so badly - one of the big milk suppliers (thinking I need to avoid using them then)?

[plumseverywhere]

I think this is the report I saw online yesterday?


If it is, then that the fact a major vegan campaigning group did the undercover 'work' might suggest that the evidence is a little biased?
For example. Disbudding is described as 'the cruel burning off of horns', This particular farm has admitted to not following up to date guidelines ie. getting it done professionally but even if they were taking all the kids to the vet for an anaesthetic I feel this group of activists would still have held that stance.


In one picture, a dead kid is seen being carried to the pile of carcuses awaiting the collection people. Its obviously dead but the report suggests that the person carrying it is cruel for the way he is carrying it...


If cruelty and bad conditions are an issue then I agree it needs to be exposed but I feel a slightly less biased approach would benefit all - hopefully now its in the media the right people will go in and investigate?

[jinglejoys]

I thought you were still allowed to disbudd your own kids anyway...and yes the report is b.iased overblown craptrap.
    Don't see reports on the disbudding of calves

[salopman]

Jaykay it refers to 2 large Goat Farms one in Stone not far from me and one in Somerset, and yes I agree with other posters you have to put things in perspective, Im no vegan or veggie and no expert on disbudding but it looked a bit amateur and the guy at Stone agrees in the article that maybe they will start looking at Vet etc but what got me upset was the conditions in the parlours, nannys with sores on udders and some very distended and overlarge teats being rammed into small cups and one poor animal couldnt stand with its front feet for some reason and knelt in the parlour, the cups looked filthy and some animals didnt look 100% - but as they say you look and make your own minds up, just thought it worthy of bringing to the attention of the group.

[plumseverywhere]

I didn't see the nannies in the stalls, the sores or the bad feet and it does sound very upsetting viewing from what you say     I read it in the Daily Mail (alarm bells rang as soon as I saw which paper!) 
Hopefully someone like Compassion in world farming or an independent service with vets etc will investigate this thoroughly and in a non-biased (vegan!) way.
My husband is vegetarian so please don't think I'm taking issue with that side of it    but every time I run a soap stall it seems I attract the radicals who rant at me that I've "taken the milk that was intended for that goats kid, you know!!!" - I enjoy a subtle, smug smile as I reveal that currently I am taking 9 pints a day from a MAIDEN MILKER!!! who has never had a kid and that the goat who did kid this year is happily feeding her baby (again, my choice not a dig at those who remove kids but great to throw back at those ranting in my face that my soap is cruel haha!!)
off of my 'soap box' now - lets hope these cases get the attention they deserve and appropriate action is taken where neccessary 

[salopman]

well said Lisa!

[Hatty]

It seams we hear the same thing about each and every industry at one time or another, but some of the girls in the video clip look in a bad way, didn't notice anyone cleaning a teat before the cups went on and some of the udders and teats were in a bit of a mess, as were their feet, and even for a big operation the were a hell of a lot of dead animals all just thrown in plastic bins. personally keep animals because i don't like the way they are treated in big business not just goats but the hens etc going back to the very begining I got my own hens after seeing battery cages I'm not a veggie I love meat but prefer to know where it comes from

[colliewoman]

My head is too fuzzy from pain killers to read more than a sentence at a time, can anyone see in there where in Somerset one of the farms are. I have raised concerns about one place before, that i have seen myself, and know of another that I believe WAS shut down.
interested to know if it was either of them...

[salopman]

It was BROMES FARM in Somerset it states it clearly on the video, the worst pics were at Upper Enson Farm Stone a huge 2000 unit goat farm .

[ballingall]

The daily mail story concentrated on the disbudding angle, and how cruel it was to burn off the tips of the kids horns.... No mention of the fact that the vet would actually do the same procedure. Albeit with anaesthetic- there was no mention of that in the article. Having said this, it can't be feasible for commercial herds to get all their kids disbudded by the vet. Some vets charge £25 - £35 per kid. Imagine what that bill would like for 500 kids!


Having said that I do believe conditions there are not good, which is a bit worring really. I haven't viewed the videos yet either.


I do think the material is biased, but it is not good publicity for goat milk or meat sales.


Beth

[salopman]

anyone in doubt just watch the video

[omnipeasant]

These reports always seem to suggest that we should all be tarred with the same brush. There is a world of difference between what smallholders do with their goats and these big enterprises. I am glad that someone seeks out and exposes some of these farms, but it could be done with less bias to the rest of us.  I wish all factory farming  ( that is vast numbers of animals kept in un natural conditions) could be stopped, but the truth is most people don't ask where there food comes from just the price.

[Penninehillbilly]

Somewhere in the same link there is a video on cattle dairying, I think it ended up, saying 'if you want to stop this cruelty - don't drink milk - it's not natural' (its a few days since I looked at it, it was mentioned and linked on the BGS forum).
What I found much more upsetting was a link to rodeos, carting what looked like dead calves off the arena, which had been used in roping contests.

[McRennet]

Well...... It does raise a good point. 1 farmer with 2000 will never be able to 'tend to his flock' in the same way that I can look after mine. I accept that. I don't like it but i accept it. Having studied the global food system last year it opened my eyes to a lot of our food production methods that I was unaware of. And people DO need to know where their food comes. Ignorance should NOT be bliss.
However, this is a terribly bias report, it is dramatised which really annoys me. Pain is pain, they should just shut up and show the footage.

As for the pile of caracas' again there will be a higher rate of death if you are housing that many goats altogether. But i worked on a  farm that had 160, treated hem extremely well and the sad fact is that you do lose them for one reason or another as the year goes on.


The other thing that gets to me is that I, having a herd size of 40 odd goats, try to be organised and tidy and abide by the law. I contact my vet to get prescriptions written out so that I can dose one of the girls with (suprise suprise) yet another drug that isn't licensed for goats. I fill in all my medical records and movement forms. I keep all my feed labels so that there is traceability. And then I crap myself when I hear that Animal Health are coming to inspect. 


Where are the inspections on these 2 farms??? The officials aren't stupid, they know it's a big farm, and they know if a farmer is intentionally avoiding showing certain areas. 


Argh, I think what gets me on this is that I think they are 100% right to shed light on such a situation but it's HOW they have done that pisses me off.  How dare they say that goats milk is worse for you than cows milk, WTF!! That's bonkers!


The sad fact is that it's hard enough for those of us wanting to rear smaller herds as it is (be that for meat, milk, or breeding). Goats are a minority in this country and the last thing I want is for people (who don't know the facts to begin with) to have an excuse not to buy a very unrated but absolutely brilliant foodstuff.


Rant over.