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Author Topic: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?  (Read 10972 times)

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« on: May 31, 2012, 11:33:58 am »
In the hills and I have both just discovered that we have been storing out layers pellets incorrectly i.e. in galvanised bins but next to our pig food, also in a galvanised bin.
 
My assumption is that layers pellets probably have some 'animal' bits in them which are banned for pigs. Is this correct?
 
Are there any other foods that should be kept some distance away from each other?
 
Sally
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2012, 12:52:54 pm »
In theory chicken feed being potential containing animal products should be stored a few metres away from any of the other feed, in a sealed labelled container, and ideally in a different room / store, or so animal health told me when inspecting.
This is the one they get most excited by. Everything else they were happy with provided it was in vermin proof separate labelled containers but could all be in the same store and without the metres of separation.
The only thing they checked I knew was that copper in cattle feed could be dangerous for sheep so they were happy that was in a different place.

benkt

  • Joined Apr 2010
  • Cambridgeshire
    • Hempsals Community Farm
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 04:02:24 pm »
Does anyone have a link to the regulation and/or guidance on feed separation?
After a brief google, I've failed to find any official guidance on this but it must be out there somewhere.

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 05:02:54 pm »
There isnt a simple guide that I have found, that would be too easy....:-)) Wouldnt need so many inspectors then!
Defra basically state
a) It is illegal to feed any farmed livestock, including fish and horses, with prohibited

processed animal proteins in particular mammalian meat and bonemeal, poultry meal,

feather meal etc and gelatine from ruminants.

b) Restricted animal proteins such as fishmeal can be fed but only to non-ruminant animals.

If you intend to either use complementary feedingstuffs or mix feeds which contain

fishmeal for non-ruminant feed use you must contact your local animal health office (State

Veterinary Service) to establish whether you need to be registered or authorised.

c) It is illegal to feed rejected food that contains meat, or has been in contact with meat.

d) Packaged pet foods containing animal proteins intended for pets or working dogs should

not be kept in the same store on farm as any livestock feed products and the feeding of

pets or working dogs must be restricted to an area where farmed animals do not have

access at any time.[/font][/size]Animal Health take the view here at least that poultry mash and pellets potentially contain non -veggie derived ingredients (forgot to say they also get even more red faced if feed for the farm cats or dogs is kept in proximity :-)) even if dry food as thats meat.
The key points I got from the inspection were.
All feed in vermin proof, labelled containers
Ruminant and non ruminant feeds separate from each other tho could be in same storeroom
Chicken feed completely physically separated from the rest of the feed in different store (metal dustbin by henhouse fine tho!)
Dog and cat food nowhere near the animal feed store.
Watch out for copper in cattle feed if you also keep sheep
The following (rather detailed) have info on the underlying rules (which are designed to minimise BSE risks)
http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/managing-disease/animalbyproducts/food-and-feed-businesses/derived-products-animal-origin-in-farm.htm
http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/bse/controls-eradication/documents/feedbanguide.pdf

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 05:24:51 pm »
Lachlanandmarcus,
Thanks that makes very interesting reading.
 
I have also picked up on something else that someone was suggesting in the poultry section a while back about using egg shells as grit. That is a definite no no.
"Egg shells will need to have been processed in an ABP approved processing plant, prior to use as grit for poultry."
 
Sally
 
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 06:55:43 pm »
ironic really given my hens will occasionally eat the whole egg if Im not early enough in the morning - they know whats good for them but doubt they have told Defra :-)))

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 08:35:29 pm »
Egg shells increase the Calcium intake beyond their tolerance levels if they are already on layers pellets. The same applies to Oystershell grit. Liver or Kidney failure is the result. They are only suitable for corn fed or free ranging layers.

northfifeduckling

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • Fife
    • North Fife Blog
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 09:29:06 am »
Chickens are quite clever or call it instict. They will eat grit if they need it and if not they will leave it alone. My experience....
Kidney problems can result from overfeeding on the high protein in pellets, not grit, so I have read elsewhere. Males should not get layers pellets but the cockerel is not so clever there as are the drakes - they won't touch them. Some layers pellets give a stated amount on the bag you should not exceed per bird a day. Since I've stuck to that have not had any ill effects. :chook: :&>

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 09:53:18 am »
My only worry about feeding egg shells to hens is that they might get the idea and start egg eating. So I use oyster grit.


I'd be surprised if they'd overdose on it?


Tried very hard, results in a different thread, to get to the bottom of what was in layers pellets, to see why they were regarded as 'poisonous' to other stock.


The brand we investigated we were assured had no 'animal byproducts' in but when we explored the origin of the methionine and the dicalcium 
Phosphate we got told 'BElgium and France '  :D  And I sort of gave up after that. Wonder if the vitamin levels are an issue too?

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 12:01:22 pm »
I always thought that the coccidiostat in poultry feed was the thing that was poisonous to other stock, particularly horses.

You can get poultry feeds without the coccidiostat.

I now only feed my (completely free range) flock mixed corn; I was simply not prepared to have an accident with the ponies.  The hens have remained perfectly healthy - they do of course pinch sheep and cattle cake as they find any spills about the farm.  :D  They may occasionally find a pig pellet before the pigs do, but I suspect this is rare...  ;)

When I have in the past fed eggshells back to the hens, I have dried them on the stovetop and then crushed them down to grit-sized pieces, so that they would never get the idea that eating eggs could be good.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Sunnybank

  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Leominster, Herefordshire
    • Facebook
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 02:13:53 pm »
thanks for this info - we keep 2 galvanised dustbins side by side, one for layers pellets the other for sheep feed. we are getting our pup soon so will have dog food too, so am i right they all have to be stores separately and away from each other??? at least the cat food is in the kitchen :)

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 02:39:58 pm »
Only chick crumbs usually have coccidiostat in them, not layers pellets.

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 03:14:44 pm »
thanks for this info - we keep 2 galvanised dustbins side by side, one for layers pellets the other for sheep feed. we are getting our pup soon so will have dog food too, so am i right they all have to be stores separately and away from each other??? at least the cat food is in the kitchen :)

Yes that's correct. The dustbins are fine but the animals you mention come into the 3 main categories for separation (ruminant, non ruminant and carnivorous/pet, so ideally should be a few metres apart if outside and in different physical stores if inside (or shuttered off from each other at least so that it is impossible for a bit to drop into the other storage container. Also each has to be labelled, which is so if you are taken ill, someone stepping in wont feed the wrong stuff by mistake (I know, I know...) :-)))

clydesdaleclopper

  • Joined Aug 2009
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 06:24:04 pm »
So what if you feed your ruminants and non-ruminants the same stuff? Both our horses and our goats get sugar beet and alfalfa  ???
Our holding has Anglo Nubian and British Toggenburg goats, Gotland sheep, Franconian Geese, Blue Swedish ducks, a whole load of mongrel hens and two semi-feral children.

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Layers Pellets - hazardous materials?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 06:47:36 pm »
So what if you feed your ruminants and non-ruminants the same stuff? Both our horses and our goats get sugar beet and alfalfa  ???
as long as the feeds are suitable for both as alfalfa and sugar beet wouldbe (and most 'straight' feeds and forage, you could keep them together no problem ......since there cant be cross contamination with something that is allowed to be fed to either category anyway!
...but if you bought something later on that wasnt suitable for ruminants,  then that would have to be separate. Labelling would get a bit complex then, as the non ruminant feed would be split between two locations however the important bit would be the labelling and location of the (mythical in your case)  'restricted' feed ie the one that wasnt permitted to be fed to all livestock,so it wasnt fed accidentally or split accidentally.

 

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