[smudger]

I seem to spend an inordinate time thinking about horse wormers and it now seems dogs have just got more complicated.


I have used drontal tablets every 3 months for years. But vet gave advocate as a freebie to my new pup, but says I still need to do drontal every 3 months, plus the pippets every  month ( £25 for 6 ) which is expensive. I also don't do flea / tick treatment as a matter of course  (less problems / risk in the sheep filled countryside than dog and deer infested Richmond park!). Just check them over for ticks in the season.


What does everyone use for worming?


Is garlic effective for fleas/ticks?

[doganjo]

I was given Drontal for my three last week.  My dogs don't normally eat stuff when out working (they are just too busy hunting) but if the cat brings a rabbit back we share it    so I only worm them every three months as well.  Cat gets done every month.  Seen a  few ticks and fleas in recent times so they were all 'advocate'ed a couple of weeks ago and that should do them over the summer.


Are the pipettes for fleas/ticks?   I wouldn't do them every month, just quarterly, and check the dogs every week and use liquid soap if you find any to ease them off - it smothers ticks so they can't breathe and they let go.  Does same job as whisky but cheaper

[Rosemary]

I do both dogs and Bertie cat with Drontal every 13 weeks (I do Felix twice a year because he doesn't really go out) and with Frontline every six / seven weeks ie when I worm them and once in between wormings.

It seems to work fine.

[smudger]

The advocate the vet gave is a joint wormer/ flea and tick. Does lung and heart worms (or something) that Drontal doesn't. But there is also something it doesn't cover that Drontal does (tape?).


Don't know why we are told to minimise wormers in horses but dogs are expected to be bombarded...


Think I'll stick with drontal tablets (website says it covers all common worms).  The advocate also doesn't do ticks.


However, bit of a quandry with my pup. he had 2 doses of panacur and was due a 3rd but vet gave advocate. Drontal says a pup should have 3 doses early on then go 3 monthly. is he suficiently covered, or worth giving him a dose with my other dog. Its 5 weeks since advocate given.

[HelenVF]

I don't regularly worm my lot.  They do get wormed a couple of times a year but I never do it religiously at 3 months. I use Drontal and panacur, rotating it.

I don't use any flea/tick stuff unless needed.  I will put tick stuff on the dogs I am using for grouse counting but that's it.  I will also only use flea stuff when they need it.

Helen

[SallyintNorth]

Plea from farmers.   If your dogs run - and poo - in sheep country then pleeeeeassse worm them for tapeworm every three months.  Sheep pick up the tapeworms from dog poo and whilst it is rare that it causes symptoms, cysts can and do arise in the sheep's tissues, some of which can cause health problems and some of which would result in deductions when the carcase is processed.  Even when there is no deduction and hence financial penalty to the farmer, none of us like to find that some of that lamb we nurtured and reared has had to be incinerated because of a tenuicious cyst.

In 2009, cysts caused by tapeworms originating in dogs cost the British industry an estimated £7.5million.  An estimated 9% of lamb's livers were condemned, accounting for £0.5million of that total.  (Source: Eblex Lamb Briefing 10/07 12th July 2010.)

Unequivocally, dogs which are Drontalled only every six months do emit viable tapeworm that can infect sheep.

Re: ticks, if you are in a Lyme Disease area, prevention is better than hoping to see and remove safely any tick that bites your dog.  The spirochaete that causes the disease is in the tick's saliva and vomit; unless you are very skilled and always lucky, the tick can regurgitate as you remove it, and the spirochaete is then even more likely to enter the dog's system than if you left the tick alone.  It's a horrible disease, hard to diagnose in a human and moreso in a dog, very hard to treat even if diagnosed, and all those of us with arthritic dogs, think on... could that arthritis be a result of a long-ago tick bite...?

[Mammyshaz]

Because of the life  cycle of the worms we recommend worm pups from 3 weeks of age . every 2weeks to 3 months old then every month to 6 months old then every 3-4 months from there on for the PROTECTION of the dog AND other host species (people or animal) where the dog can pass on the worm at different times in it's life cycle passing on disease with it.
Certainly roundworm ( toxicaracanis) can cause blindness especially young children) and the dog does not necessarily show signs of having it. It is transmitted intermittently so you don't know when your dog has it until it has a heavy burden.
 Lungworm causes serious illness . Unfortunately it is now widespread throughout the UK so please protect your dogs.

Which wormer and flea/ tick protection is not only personal choice ( several products on the Market give protection for the same ) but it also depends on your activities. Ie if you live in tick infested area always use an insecticide which protects for this. Living around livestock then always protect with a product that also kills tapeworm. Etc.

Personally I use frontline for ticks and fleas ( and also because it is non- systemic so I feel safe using it monthly through the summer ) and I use Milbemax wormer every 3 monthsbecause it does a multitude of worms including heart worm lungworm etc which many others don't do. My view is protection is a damn site easier to manage than the illness.

[Mammyshaz]

Oops, in work mode in above post 

Different vets and vns ( even in the same practice)  have their preferred product of choice.
It sounds like advocate have a special promotion in your practice at present. If you are happy with what you currently use smudger then I would continue with that just check your dog is not at any other risk and if so worm/ treat accordingly.

[smudger]

Sally, thx  for the reminder. I'm pretty good but  will be 100% from now on  (should say dogs mostly walked on my own land).


Mummyshaz- apart from milbemax being prescription only, it seems it shouldn't be used with collies (ivermectin sensitivity). Nor should Advocate according to this site (and a few others):


http://www.collienet.com/health%20topics/MILBEMAX.htm


I'd be grateful for your opinion. If true, not happy my vet gave it to my BC pup (nor am I ecstactic at his lack of engagement and discussion on what was actually the best worming regime for my circumstances).  Exmoor is  a high tick area so I do want tick treatment through summer months at least. Advocate doesn't do ticks. Current thinking is stick with current regime: drontal 4x year, continue with frontline during risk months or ticks then give 2x doses of panacur to treat the lungworm.

[bigchicken]

Its not just dogs that carry tapeworm I think foxes will be much more of a threat than the average domestic dog.

[SallyintNorth]

Its not just dogs that carry tapeworm I think foxes will be much more of a threat than the average domestic dog.

In theory that's right but I think the tapeworms in question are not commonly found in foxes. 

Some websites do implicate the fox as well as the dog in transmission of hydatid, which causes gid in sheep.  Not common in my area, more of an issue in the Highlands, I think?

[SallyintNorth]

Mummyshaz- apart from milbemax being prescription only, it seems it shouldn't be used with collies (ivermectin sensitivity). Nor should Advocate according to this site (and a few others):
http://www.collienet.com/health%20topics/MILBEMAX.htm
I'd be grateful for your opinion. If true, not happy my vet gave it to my BC pup (nor am I ecstactic at his lack of engagement and discussion on what was actually the best worming regime for my circumstances). 

I think that's perhaps not a UK site?  As far as I can discover, Milbemax in the UK does not contain ivermectin, it contains Milbemycin oxime and Praziquantel.  Our good agricultural vets prescribe Milbemax for routine worming of working collies, both adults and pups.

Advocate contains imidacloprid and moxidectin with benzyl alcohol and Butylhydroxytoluene.  The datasheet makes it plain that collies should be prevented from ingesting it - so the site for application should be one which the collie will not lick, and care should be taken to prevent any collies licking the product off another treated animal.

[Sylvia]

I Drontal my fourteen dogs every twelve weeks( I think every four weeks is a bit over the top) as I have my sheep and my grandchildren to think about.
I have a friend who has 30+ large dogs and she uses a wormer designed for cows   I would be a bit wary of this, getting the dosage right etc. but her dogs seem fine on it
 

[Mammyshaz]

There is a high number of the collie population carrying a faulty gene ( now there is a test which can be done and is being brought into the testing regime of some breeders) this gene is being found in other breeds as well. It causes reactions to many drugs if care is not taken on drug administering at the correct dose. Some drugs cause toxicity at normal doses in these dogs ( ivermectin being the common one). Milbemax should be fine if taken at the correct dosage ( we ALWAYS weigh any animal for dosages) but if at all worried then use another. Before buying ask to read the data sheets. It will say whether to avoid with collies or to give with care of dosage.

That said, any drug can cause reactions in any individuals which is why POM is so necessary to prevent untrained persons administering drugs incorrectly. Weighing up the benefits of the treatment to the risks of not doing it should also be assessed.

Ps.edited earlier notes as lungworms is not zoonotic ( very tired last night ) but roundworm and tapeworm do carry risks of zoonotic diseases.

[Mammyshaz]

We don't use advocate routinely but there is a website for the product re safety.
Www.advocate-spot-on.com
It suggests that advocate is very safe in collies  with the faulty gene even when given at well over the recommended dosage as a spot on but neuro signs have been seen when Ingested.

 so make sure the collies do not lick the area at all if they carry the gene ( or the gene status is unknown)