[robert waddell]

older collies might not have been used to kids     but you don't know until you try   spend a few hours with them at the centres with your children and just observe
dogs do have feelings as well our first collie her mate was killed by mad Mary speeding with her car  Sheba did miss him even after she had her pups and we kept one (spot)the epitome of a family collie
also an old man and his wife bought one of our pups he walked a 7 mile circuit every day in his home town aftyer he got the dog everybody talked to him before they walked on by
but as everybody else is saying  you are doing the sensible thing by not rushing into it and if you go for a pup let it pick you

[plumseverywhere]

Such a shame you are so far away Robert! I actually don't know any BC breeders near us, I know the sheep farmer across the road has a collie and my heart skips a bit watching him work the dog, rounding up all the sheep - I love watching sheep dog trials on TV too (maybe its something from a former life!!)
That is sad about Sheba missing her mate, our cat is currently going through a similar state of grief after Tomsk was killed outside our house last Thursday.
thanks again everyone 

[SallyintNorth]

I wrote - and then lost, damn this new post editor!  - a long post about the three rescue collie-x dogs I've had.
 
In brief, I loved them all but two of the three were very difficult dogs to own; one had to be pts as he could not be made reliable around children.  One was never reliable near sheep or geese, and would escape to bin-raid whenever he could.  The other was a wonderful dog, but even he took many months of patient work to get him to cope with being left in the house, even with our other dog for company.
 
And - be warned ... one of the rescues was a rehome via the RSPCA.  No mention of his serious issues with children or yellow dogs.       From what I've seen of the Dogs' Trust, they are extremely careful.  But a breed-specific rescue charity would probably be the best with this type of dog.

[robert waddell]

had the same with a peacock    his mate was killed by a fox either a 2 legged one or four legs  no feathers left        he jumped of a high wall in front of the bus     and the number of cats that have been killed by cars  we don't let them out now 

[plumseverywhere]

Bit of a risk rehoming sometimes then Sally? It sounds like we are dependent on good honest assessment by the centre    Hopefully Dogs Trust are good (they are our only local rehoming place) but then I've heard mixed reviews. I guess they can't get it 100% right all the time 
One of the reasons I am holding off of buying a new dog now (apart from the fact Snowball needs to be considered highly in this, the cat that is) my youngest is only 5. She's never had a dog in her life and currently hates going to the local pub where a small JR terrier runs out yapping soon as you walk into the beer garden, I actually have to lift Scarlett up as she shakes. We have some friends with a yorkie and the owner and I spent a little while gently encouraging, but not pushing, Scarlett to have a little stroke of the Yorkie. After that, they shared a room and Scarlett forgot she was in there which was good. So I need to get her used to dogs more as that could upset the whole apple cart on day 1!


Did your peacock commit suicide in front of the bus Robert?
I wish Tony would let me keep snowball in, we've bickered about it so much this last few days. I want to keep her in with a litter tray, having had 3 killed in 3 years here I hate to say it but it almost feels like "not if, but when..." now and he says I'm just being too negative and need to try and not be so down...thing is, our 4 small children watched their beloved 13 year old ginger cat knocked down and killed Thursday, as they sat eating breakfast right in front of their eyes. I can't let them go through that again!   

[robert waddell]

yes he committed suicide
5 is maybe a bit small to be getting a collie especially as she is cautious around dogs         but depends on what like she is with dogs some children just wind a dog up then it is the dogs fault
many years ago we had a rescue collie it just hated children the night it came to us it chewed its way out a shed and disappeared next day it reapeared at the house door growling and snapping and would not let us in the house we then found out it liked following the tractor and would run for miles after the tractor
the original owners children were bitten by her and the second owners children were bitten we ended up with her because we had no children  and no other dogs  rip Pepi knew the good ones from the bad 

[plumseverywhere]

We had 3 GSD's while I grew up. Kimber was a gorgeous boy that we rehomed. One day when I was about 7, we were on a walk when a man of African descent carrying a rolled up newspaper walked past, Kimber attacked him. My parents were devastated as up till now this was the dog that I used to rest my head on while I watched TV but they couldnt' take the risk. Transpired that he had been kept by a man fitting this ones description who used to beat him with a rolled up paper - no one had told mum and dad this. They had him collected same day but told me that the "nice man was just taking Kimber for a walk..." I remember sitting by the front door waiting for hours for the nice man to return him     2 lessons there - find out the truth when you rehome a dog and don't lie to your children even if you think you are protecting them, it hurts like hell when they realise the truth.
Then there was Kleiner, another rehomed GSD - bit me on the 2nd night he lived with us. I was about 9, gone to the kitchen for a glass of water and he caught my hand, drew blood dad pulled him off. He had to go too as they didn't want to risk it.
Dog 3 was Minder (yep, named after THAT series!! it was the 1980's by now    ) much research by Dad, found a breeder some miles away, visited both mum and dad, visited the litter a few times. Dad let this little dog puppy choose us. He lived happily till he was in his teens and had to be PTS. Broke dad's heart [size=78%]that one did.  I guess this is partly why I am takign the research so seriously![/size]

[jaykay]

An older one, that has been checked out by someone as knowledgeable as Barbara Sykes, would be a very good place to start I think. Especially if it's lived happily with kids before. It would be calmer round your little one, less scary than a bouncy youngster.

[in the hills]

Think you need to be very careful if you have such young children, Plums.
 
We considered a dog from a rescue but decided against it because we felt it was a less certain way of getting a dog that fitted into family life than getting a puppy. I am sure it can work but you would need to be really careful in your choice.
 
Again, sure collies can be kept in homes with young children but it maybe that some other breeds are more suitable - if it is a house dog/pet that you want. If you want a dog to work then that is a different matter. I suppose you need to work out which is more important to you and what fits in with your way of life. A nervous/highly strung/sensitive dog of whatever breed, is perhaps not a good idea around young children. These dogs may not behave in a very predictable manner when faced with the movements/noise and activity of young children. Of couse there are always exceptions and good selection, knowledge, understanding of the breed and training can all help. Some breeds will perhaps require more work/time and commitment than others.
 
I agree with Sabrina that many working breeds do require you to understand them and work with their natural instincts and some breeds of gundog are not easy. I have a Flat-coated Retriever and though I grew up with them , kept them as an adult and love them I wouldnt necessarily recommend  them to people as they can be more difficult to control than other breeds and always on the go.

[plumseverywhere]

Thanks In the Hills, I totally understand what you are saying 


I'm wondering if a collie crossed with something like a lab for example (with a reputation for being calmer) from a puppy, might be the way forward.

[robert waddell]

we had one of those dogs his previous owner was going to be a new dad and they were not wanting to take the chance of the dog getting jealous he was just a big softy  pure black brainless and if he got away always looking for his Nat king Cole

[piggy]

I have 3 borders and all are different.


2 are from a pedigree show line and the third my youngest is from a working farm and boy can you tell the difference.
The oldest is now 8 and she was my first dog since i had left home,i had always wanted a border but my parents always had labs and said no! me and my oh were living in a rented house whilst looking for a smallholding he had 4 very young children 3,5,7 and 9 that stayed with us every weekend,we found a local ish breeder who was well known and recommended for her help and advice,when we first went to see the breeder she had no puppies at that time but had some due soon we had to wait a month before they were born,we went to see the pups at 2 weeks old and choose ours and then we went back every couple of weeks to see her until we brought her home,cassie lived in the house for the first year until we moved to our smallholding but there were rules she was only aloud in the kitchen and had a cage witch was her safe place if she wanted to be on her own,the children new never to go in to the cage to speak to her  they were aloud to call her out and if she wanted to come out then fine but if she didnt then leave her alone,they were never aloud to feed her or go near her whilst she was having her dinner.


Once we moved cassie would not come in the house and has lived outdoors every since, when she had her pups i made her come in as it was winter every time the front door opened she jumped out the pen and shot out the front door,she just found it to hot inside,i kept 1 of the pups her daughter who is now 5,spangles is more like her dad completely different to her mum.


Then the 3rd well she was from a working farm and is a complete nutter so very different to the other 2,she has the working gene which showed up very early on,will herd anything that moves, geese , chickens,ducks she couldn't get to the sheep but as she got older  now shes 18 months   
she easily jumps any fence to get in with the sheep seen her clear 5ft no probs, latest trick is jumping through the 5 bar gate, as its there i now take her for sheep dog training once a fortnight and in August i will be getting some of the sheep we have been training with so i can do a bit each day with her to keep her stimulated.


The other 2 have no desire what so ever to herd luckily.


So what i was trying to say in my long winded post was if i was you i would think about a show line not guaranteed but you might find a pup that is less of a handful like mine and is less likely to herd.

[in the hills]

Dont know much about first crosses - know they are popular these days. Lady whos collie had bitten the little girl, also has a collie x springer spaniel. She said that dog was very friendly and more confident/outgoing than the collie. Very lively and busy though.
 
I love to watch my neighbour work his collies too, so know what you mean. He was showing me his Welsh Collie the other day. He was a lovely looking dog. Some of his collies appear quite friendly. I looked after one of his bitches with a litter of pups last year and she was super but others are not sociable and I wouldnt trust my children with them.He says they can be tempramental.
 
If you are not in a rush, could you visit some breeders of different pure breeds. Give you some ideas. When my sisters old lab. died she decided she would like to try a different breed. She had always liked Beagles but after visiting a person that exhibited and bred these she decided for various reasons not to go ahead. Think good breeders would be happy for you to do that.

Robert - would you have another? 
 
Few people have fussed our lad and said they had owned one but found them too active and parted with them. Our lad is very clever and as soft as soft can be. As far as you can trust any dog I would trust him - a great friend for the children and always ready to play. Very boisterous though and a handful.   
 

[robert waddell]

if it is the collie cross   i would not have one near me lab x collie
we have three collies and a 4 week old pup and at present have my sons Alaskan malamute staying here
now colmutes would be interesting although my collie (spot )has a curly tail like the malamute and Zara the collie pup has a curly tail and all collie in the breeding

[HappyHippy]

I hate to say it Lisa, but the only dogs who have ever bitten me (twice in my whole life) were Collies    Once as a kid and one more recently. I would be tempted to go for something slightly less neurotic    and easier round the kids - Bedlington terriers are cute    but my GSD is just great with the kids and pigs (but, ahem, not chickens  )
Karen