[white-blazes]

I notice a few of you have shetlands.  I have a 11 year old gelding and for the last two years (this is his 3rd) he has come down with lami.  He lives out 24/7/365 with my mares and in winter have big bale haylage adlib so that if we do get a frost, they still had access to haylage.  Farrier came last week again (he came a month ago) and I did think it was his trim that made him sore, but it seems there seems to be a common link to wormers and some ingredient in some particular ones that is causing lami.

My poor little man has been stabled now for 3 weeks, but as he has a mesh gate he can still see his companion.

[miniaturesabound]

I've never heard of a link between wormers and laminitus before. There are several things to look out for when kept out all year round. New grass just as it growing, especially if it quite short can cause it. Also putting them on grass that has just been cut, It's better to wait for at least two weeks after.  The dewy grass first thing in the morning is something to be avoided too. If you have the space it is better to let an area grow long and become course and go over before putting your pony on it. In the meantime keep him on as bare a patch as possible with just hay and maybe small amounts of calm & condition. If you have limited grazing area you may like to try a muzzle so you can control when and what he eats. You could also try Bute for  pain relief. My vet always recommend they be left out as standing in one place like a stable for too long can be very painful. I do hope he recovers soon.

[sabrina]

Pitstop who has drop soles due to bad laminitis, he always gets sore after his feet are done. hard ground causes problems. I have him out 3 hours a day with the others the rest of the time during the summer he has the front of the barn and yard to roam about in where he can see the others. I also have boots for him to protect his soles when the ground is hard. i would not give a pony who has had laminitis haylage as it is high in protein than hay, I have not heard about wormers.

[HelenVF]

My 22 year old Section A came down with it last year, but I'm afraid to say that was down to our ignorance.  Luckily, we have an excellent farrier who guided us through the whole process and it wasn't a particularly severe case.  This year, we have been doubly safe with her.

I'll ask my farrier about it when I see him at the weekend.  He did go to a laminitis seminar in Milton Keynes a couple of months ago and came back with a few more ideas.  He did say that hard ground seemed to be a cause as well.

Dusty's soles have dropped as well and I have been looking for boots for her - Sabrina, what sort and where did you get yours?  I've googled but not sure what I am looking for.  Dusty also gets sore feet after trimming so would like the boots to help her then.

Helen

[sabrina]

Pitstop boots came from America but you made get something similar in this country now.

Easyboots RX Easycare Hoof Boots. they were expensive at the time but he has had them for over a year and they are as good as new. Without them he could not go out on hard ground. As a set of shoes now cost £80 i think they have worked out OK. Plus no vet bills in the past year.

[HelenVF]

Thanks   VERY quick google is showing about £60, so not tooo bad.

Helen

[lachlanandmarcus]

I dont know of a wormer link, although I avoid the combinatio  wormers like Pramox because they can upset the system in other ways esp for colic prone horsesOn the other hand, there IS a link between large doses /long periods of steroids and laminitis so that is something to be aware of. A friends Icelandic horse had to be PTS in that scenario.

[Hellybee]

I think that turnout depends very much on where the pony is at in its bout.  I wouldnt turn a pony out that is in pain, i would wait til theyre movement becomes much more fluid and less pottery, with the aid of a good mag product and a little bute.   I feel that if they are put out to early whilst there is still alot of inflammation it would do more harm than good to the inflamed laminae.  But thats my opinion  

Stablilise first then out on a soft surface to support frog. 


I have two that are touch wood doing well this year and are lovely and soft, and we have avoided stabling as they are full of joys, and obviously very happy on theyre feet.  But are watched like hawks.

I give these two particular ponies "cleavers" that i pick in te hedgerows, you know the rambling sticky bob plant that is everywhere this time of year, it s a natural liver tonic amongst other things, lots of people swear by it and ive even heard of vets suggesting it....give it a look see??

Of course any number of things can trigger off lami, but the link between that and wormers is a grey area i think?? Maybe the is something in it?  as said above Pramox is different to other wormers i hear as it gets into the muscles, maybe this has caused a stress reaction?

Good luk with the dude x

[ppd]

I would not let a lamanitic pony wander, but would keep inside with a deep bed of shavinngs (what mine is doing at the moment), for about 10 - 14 days with soaked hay (no haylage - too rich) and a vet once said when a friends pony had laminitis, that when they did get out (restricted) to (provided no absesses on infection in hooves) to leave mud in feet and not pick out as formed a 'cast' for the sole to avoid pressure. Personally i am not sure on this one as would rather be keeping an eye on their soles and feet. Good luck x

[Hellybee]

I get the leaving mud in soles thing, same as being on a bed of shavings or possibly sand, same effect.     x

I think speed is the key, knowing what is out of character for a certain pony, being ready to whip them in if need be, but trying your best to keep them fit and soft , .   My two "borderliners" are like spring lambs, full of joy, that leads me to believe that they are very happy on theyre feet, but still watched like hawks , they have farrier on monday, he s here every 4 weeks over the summer, i think we a good team x

[funkyfish]

A lot of ponies have an underling metabolic disease like Cushings. This makes them more prone to laminitis. There is a laminitis foundation who's website has good info.
Laminitis.org
Laminitis-advice.co.uk

[lachlanandmarcus]

I think that turnout depends very much on where the pony is at in its bout.  I wouldnt turn a pony out that is in pain, i would wait til theyre movement becomes much more fluid and less pottery, with the aid of a good mag product and a little bute.   I feel that if they are put out to early whilst there is still alot of inflammation it would do more harm than good to the inflamed laminae.  But thats my opinion  

Stablilise first then out on a soft surface to support frog. 

This is exactly the advice I have had with my pony who has had one bout of acute lami (no rotation) striking her on a bare paddock in autumn :-(.

 Vet was very insistent on deep bed, inside for at least a month (ie until sound plus 2 to 3 weeks) on a strict diet as she was overweight, then another month of just noodling in the stable yard, but then equally keen after that that she went out as much as possible. According to him (and he is a horse specialist of many years) the hoof needs to grow esp in flat footed thin soled horses and the best way to do that is for them to be out, walking around.

She is now kept either in bare paddock, or one with old grass and a muzzle on. Out in the day, in at night when she has vit/min supp &mag ox in a little healthy Hooves. Forage inside is mainly oat straw with a little sugar sprinkle of old hay.

Despite not being able to ride at all due to an operation for the last two months or the next two, she has stayed pretty trim and lami free to date.

[HelenVF]

I spoke to my farrier this morning and he said that it is a result of too much worming, not a specific ingredient in the wormer.

Helen

[Mel Rice]

All natives have evolved to cope with rough, scrubby grass, Fields are often too rich  I used to have a shetland that we had to watch this time of year (even muzzels didnt help much the juicy grass went in it only restricted the rougher stuff!!!)

I have tried two types of boot with my ex-racer who has problimatical feet ( haead and body would ride out everday but his feet, and his owner!, are not up to it)   We had problems with the fit of both boots. one went on well but came off too easily the other rubbed his heels. If you are going down the boots rout can you try before you buy?

[lachlanandmarcus]

These are the only people I know who run an established hoof boot hire scheme, might be worth a look

http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/HoofBootsHiring.aspx

Re muzzles I found that Liesel could only get the longer, older grass, and also, measuring by 'number of poos in field per day' it restricted the amount of grass by at least 50%. In proper tests not by the muzzle manufacturers/retailers, independent ones, they showed a reduction of between 50-80% in quantity consumed, which has to be worth it. Especially as restricted time grazing was largely shown not to work, as up to 80% of a days intake could (and was) eaten in as little as 2 hours turnout by horses who worked out that was all the turnout they could expect to get.