[pgkevet]

I only moved in here last september. It took a while to get some of the gear but finally early december I had my tractor and a nice old fergie 2 furrow plough. I ploughed two quarter acre patches for veggies.. the idea being that one patch would be worked on and improved for next year and the other patch for my growing this year accepting results will not be as good as i'd like.

The land i ploughed was into hay meadow for the last 8+ years. The depth of soil is pretty good and medium clay and I ploughed as deep as my 43HP tractor could tug..about 9 inches with nice ribbonlike furrows but some didn't turn completely over. Local advice is that that is due to the thick rooted grassland i'm working on and that makes sense.

I followed on Mid March with many passes of discing and then chain harrowing and got a lovely surface tilth but (not suprised) there are some lines of grass coming through following the edges of the furrows where the 'turn over' was imperfect.

Finally the question. If i replough now then I'm worried that all i do is turn the ground back to the grass side up rather than rebury the new stuff. the option would be glyphosate the regrowing lines and live with it this year on the one patch... and keep working the other... a green manure then cut and turn that in with a mix of woodchip and horse dung middle of the year and again turn during autumn and again early winter...

So replough? Glyphosate? Or just harrow again?

[supplies for smallholders]

Hi,

We are doing the same thing for a small veggie plot, I ploughed about 1/2 acre, Power harrowed, spread muck then power harrowed again.

As this plot was very weedy I intend spraying off with Roundup this year and growing on it next year.

Made easier as we are now stockists of Roundup, Grazon etc.

Thanks

[robert waddell]

no simple answer there are ploughs and there ploughs  all designed for different soil types and conditions  also the setting of the plough can have a big influence on Finnish  as can the type of grass   just because it is green do not assume it is grass     good grasses have a fine root system   rack knotgrass and others have a much thicker stem system  and if your field is infested with them the furrow does not turn over fully also skimmers make a big difference to the finish      now if it is rack/knotgrass the amount of times you have disced it has done more harm than good by cutting the root system into small pieces and spreading it
spraying with glyphosphate will kill only the green shoots and more will be left untouched  it should have been sprayed before you ploughed it to get the best affect
trying to farm is a bit more complicated than watching a neighbour and doing the same

[pgkevet]

no simple answer there are ploughs and there ploughs  all designed for different soil types and conditions  also the setting of the plough can have a big influence on Finnish  as can the type of grass   just because it is green do not assume it is grass     good grasses have a fine root system   rack knotgrass and others have a much thicker stem system  and if your field is infested with them the furrow does not turn over fully also skimmers make a big difference to the finish      now if it is rack/knotgrass the amount of times you have disced it has done more harm than good by cutting the root system into small pieces and spreading it
spraying with glyphosphate will kill only the green shoots and more will be left untouched  it should have been sprayed before you ploughed it to get the best affect
trying to farm is a bit more complicated than watching a neighbour and doing the same

I'm aware of most of that. This hay meadow is a good mix of plants...not just grass or one type of grass and I also agree that spraying prior to ploughing would have been nice...but when I had decided to plough the temps had already dropped below being worth getting a good spray effect.
If i read between the lines here then you promote spraying now rather than replough straight?

[robert waddell]

temp dependant for roundup     it has to be actively growing and green it is absorbed by the leafs and translocated to the root system and kills the plant that is why it takes about 14 days to show signs of willting
i would check to see if it is weedy grass then spray    dung should be spread on the land before ploughing
you can also green feed it by sowing rape on it and ploughing it back in    all the goodness is going back into the soil

[pgkevet]

temp dependant for roundup   ....

..exactly..It was too late last year and still too cold this year...that and finding a 48 hour dry spell here in mid-wales Green manure and dung was my intent as above

I've also considered a compromise..since we're only talking a couple of half acre patches..and that is to spray patch2 when the ground warms enough and it's dry...disc/chain it after 2-3 weeks. The other patch is already being planted up - experimentally to find what grows best here.. with a lot of varieties of spuds/onion sets/leeks and brassicas and has heaps more to go in as it warms - modules by the thousand under glass already going. For the other patch i could replan and just fill it with way more legumes than I can ever use.. again varieties.. and use that as my green manure after harvest and accept the poorer cropping on poorly prepared soil. Cut it all down, macerate it and take my neighbour up on his offer of his heap of rotting horse dung and turn that lot in early autumn - and if the crop is really pathetic then mow it early.

..for the sake of a couple of quarts of beans and peas it should at least fill a freezer

[Odin]

Sounds like a similar situation to me last year. I put the spuds in , no weed killer, no manure, nothing, just rotorvaterd to a fine tilth, ridging plough and planted potatoes at 12 inch. The spuds did the business, the only weed that has had any effect is dockers. This time my main crop spuds are going in at 18 inch. Dockers still a problem but everything else in the weed department is minor. Other veg going in as well, if and when it stops raining.
Spuds are tough cookies, have faith in them, couch grass can affect them but let them work their magic. I was told that some farmers literally dug a hole and dropped the spud in, into fields or paddock areas they wanted to reclaim from grass and weed. The spuds conditioned the soil and the land was ready for working next season. Never tried it myself but I can believe it.

[Small Farmer]

Ive had the plough not turning over completely on land which has been let go by the owners and is full of weeds.  Does your plough have disc coulters, and are the mouldboards really polished?  I suspect that like mine, your land wouldn't be chosen for ploughing contests!

I think you're right that re-ploughing wouldn't solve the problem.  Trouble is where we are neither the weeds nor the grass are really growing so spraying's out for the moment and it's too wet to get on the land anyway.

I like your compromise strategy.

[pgkevet]

The plough has discs..they were always going to be essential on old turf. The mouldboards cleaned up pretty good on the first patch..both patches turned much the same. No skimmers.
It was my first go at ploughing and it took me the first few furrows to guage an appropriate speed to get the furrows turning over consistently. My feeling was that the failure to fully turn over at times was more a settling back than a failure of the plough...as in springy roots. I was cutting around 8-9 inches depth..as in a good spade down. The furrow spaces all lined up evenly with wheel in last one with the 2-furrow plough and it kept it's depth nicely ..so I reckon my setting was a pretty good starter.

This field drains nicely (the rest are pretending to be boating lakes) - just a shame soil is still so cold. I put some lettuce gem seedlings both here and in a greenhouse at the same time... those under glass are ready for first cutting and those in the field look exactly the same size as when planted.

[robert waddell]

no skimmers is  the biggest fault they effectively act like another mouldboard and bury the trash at the bottom of the furrow badly set is another reason for not turning over fully

[pgkevet]

..fair comment.

I had no end of trouble finding the plough...everyone saying they were common enough until I asked them to source one and the spares it needed.

Will do better.

[Small Farmer]

You're dead right about that.  Westlake in Peterborough have lots of plough parts.

[old ploughman]

Definately dont replough - no root structure now so wont go over in furrows.

The reason your furrows wouldnt turn over is that you were ploughing too deep I would suggest. The boards on your plough are only designed to plough at 6" absolute max! The plough you have bought is far from the best anyway (sorry!) - you only have to go to a ploughing match and see the work the Fergie class does to see that. However, ploughed shallow with the discs and skimmers adjusted correctly ( skimmers taking just half an inch and discs in about 1.5") it will do what you require. Has it got mouldboard extensions/tailpieces? You can use these to put a little bit of a final push on the furrow if it isnt closing properly.

Regards

[Small Farmer]

OP - what two furrow plough do you recommend for general use?

I also have a Ferguson plough and am wondering whether to fix it or replace it.

[old ploughman]

The problem is that the ploughs that are any good are all popular for match ploughing - which increases in popularity each year. Tractor size can also be the limiting factor as a more modern plough such as a Kveneland would do a good job but at 13" or 14" furrows and a big frame it would need 35-40hp to pull it/lift it.
An older Ransomes such as a TS59 on EP1C, YL183 or TCN boards would be good but they are so popular for matches that even the rougher ones go for spares at silly money.

To be honest, if it were my ground I would invest in a small tractor mounted rotovator - spray out with glyphosate, rotovate well and level off, spray any germinating weed seeds a few weeks later and then plant. A little 2 furrow plough in the hands of a novice (sorry) will likely be far from level and with trash not well buried. A plough like a fergie, even in the hands of an experienced ploughman will struggle to make a good job of anything other than a lawn.