[Fleecewife]

...beak and claw 

We have a bird box in our front garden which is usually used by blue tits but a couple of years ago had a sparrow family in it.  We have both tree and house sparrows and of course the numbers of tree sparrows declined by 80% at the end of the 20th century, so they are quite precious.  Right here house sparrows are fairly scarce too so we have been pleased to have our little joint flock.
So, the blue tits built their nest in the box and the hen began sitting.  Then yesterday I heard the male tit churring and shouting very loudly about danger - a pair of sparrows had moved in on them, one sitting on the lid of the nest box, the other just outside, and I saw the female go inside.  I chased them away but the tits haven't been seen since then and the sparrows are still lurking.  Today I read in my RSPB bird book that tree sparrows are known to take over another species' nest and to build their own on top of it, even if there are eggs or young in it 
Can't decide whether to climb up and take a peep or whether that could be the last straw for the tits if they are sitting tight.  Sparrows are also building a nest nearby but I don't know if that's the original raiding pair or another pair as they do like to nest close together.
Bit of a soap opera 

[HappyHippy]

I would probably go for a look and try turfing the sparrows out, but I know that's not what nature had planned and it probably wouldn't do any good.
Poor Blue Tits, sparrows are the thugs of the small bird brigade IMHO 
Let us know how get on, and make sure the OH holds the ladder for you 

[lachlanandmarcus]

nooooo Hippy!!! I would leave the sparrows alone!!! They are the rare breed here and if they turf them out too its likely they could end up with nothing in the box.

Not to say of the fact it would be a criminal offence to disturb nests in the breeding season (tho that law doesnt apply to birds themselves clearl ;Dy)

[HappyHippy]

I stand corrected L&M  I didn't realise sparrows were rare - we've got blinking loads down here 
And I thought it was only protected birds (like birds of prey) that you could be prosecuted for interfering with  You learn something everyday 
I still think the OH should hold the ladder though 

[Fleecewife]

Well things are hotting up now    There's no way I can get up there to peep and the OH is away today so whenever I'm passing I watch for a while from a distance.  A tit came back - don't know which one as I don't know how to tell the sexes apart.  It had a yawn and a stretch and a preen then popped into the box.  It popped right out again and did that a few times then a pair of sparrows turned up.  They beat up the tit a bit and the sparrow hen went into the box.  The tit flew off then came back with its mate and one of them went into the box.  I don't know if the sparrow was still in at this point. 
So it looks as if currently they are both still laying claim to the box but I don't know who's winning.

I won't interfere at all.  The blue tits usually do quite well here each year, and there are other sparrow nests around though how many are tree sparrows I can't see (those are the rare ones HH  ), so I will be like Star Trek and not affect the course of history    But I'm longing to know what is actually going on inside the box.  I wish we had a little viewing window.

[lachlanandmarcus]

I stand corrected L&M  I didn't realise sparrows were rare - we've got blinking loads down here 
And I thought it was only protected birds (like birds of prey) that you could be prosecuted for interfering with  You learn something everyday 
I still think the OH should hold the ladder though 

no worries HH! Unlike mammals, which are not protected unless specifically legislated for, with birds its the other way round, all wild birds are protected from nest damage etc .

Additional controls re rare birds/birds of prey mean even recklessly disturbing them without damaging the nest can be an offence.

So legally you might get away with frightening away tree sparrows from a nest they have adopted as they are only in the generally protected category, but they are not that common now and getting pretty rare (house sparrows also declining but a lot more numerous than tree sparrows)

RSPB "The UK tree sparrow population has suffered a severe decline, estimated at 93 per cent between 1970 and 2008. However, recent Breeding Bird Survey data is encouraging, suggesting that numbers may have started to increase, albeit from a very low point.

....a severe decline in the UK house sparrow population, recently estimated as dropping by 71 per cent between 1977 and 2008 with substantial declines in both rural and urban populations. Whilst the decline in England continues, Breeding Bird Survey data indicate recent population increases in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland."

Its the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.
All birds, their nests and eggs are protected by law and it is thus an offence, with certain exceptions (see Exceptions), to:
 
•intentionally kill, injure or take any wild bird
•intentionally take, damage or destroy the nest of any wild bird whilst it is in use or being built
•intentionally take or destroy the egg of any wild bird
•have in one's possession or control any wild bird, dead or alive, or any part of a wild bird, which has been taken in contravention of the Act or the Protection of Birds Act 1954
•have in one's possession or control any egg or part of an egg which has been taken in contravention of the Act or the Protection of Birds Act 1954
•use traps or similar items to kill, injure or take wild birds
•have in one's possession or control any bird of a species occurring on Schedule 4 of the Act unless registered, and in most cases ringed, in accordance with the Secretary of State's regulations (see Schedules)
•intentionally or recklessly disturb any wild bird listed on Schedule 1 while it is nest building, or at a nest containing eggs or young, or disturb the dependent young of such a bird.   
the schedules
http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/policy/wildbirdslaw/birdsandlaw/wca/schedules.aspx

[Fleecewife]

That's really interesting L&M - I didn't know that all birds are covered so thank you for supplying the info.  I wonder what actual powers the authorities have, in view of the difficulties they seem to have in prosecuting those who poison and kill birds of prey.   
The trapping bit brought to mind magpies - presumably killing them is also now illegal, and those who chase swallows away and bash down martins nests because they make a mess are committing a crime.
It should put the fear of  dog    into schoolboys and stop them raiding nests  .
I like this legislation as birds seem to have a really hard time of it.  I think seabirds were the first to be protected in Victorian times when numbers declined drastically because of the fashion to have feathers or even half a bird on your hat.
I suppose damaging nests and eggs with cultivation equipment will be got round by it being an 'accident'.  I love to see drivers stopping to move a nest or a leveret, but many seem to just go over them.

I've been too busy to watch any more of the soap this afternoon, but I did spot a dunnock's nest with two little chicks in 

[robert waddell]

thankfully rooks crows and magpies are not on the list   

[HappyHippy]

thankfully rooks crows and magpies are not on the list   

But I do think you need police approval to use a Larson trap 
Oh the rules and regs 

I have to say (just incase my first post is taken in the wrong context) , I'd never intentionally kill, disturb or interfere with any bird, mammal or amphibian ('cept maybe the BIG spiders that jump out at me in the shed and rats obviously )
L&M - I think it's the common sparrows I have loads of, not the tree sparrows that FW's talking about (should spend more time looking at my bird books !)

[goosepimple]

Hi Fleece  Become a bit of a developer / property ladder type and add another house nearby - something minimalist may take their fancy, or perhaps they're a bit hippy and fancy one of those pod things made out of yew 

[Fleecewife]

Hi Fleece  Become a bit of a developer / property ladder type and add another house nearby - something minimalist may take their fancy, or perhaps they're a bit hippy and fancy one of those pod things made out of yew 

Hi GP I will try to get a pic tomorrow of one of their options - an ex ventilation slit which a pair of sparrows (the house variety I think) are filling up with nesting material.  On the other side they have an enORMous thick and bushy ivy plant which is bursting at the seams with various birds including more sparrows, a blackbird, a wagtail and various LBJs I see going in and out - at one point one of our Scots Grey hens built her nest high in there too    Then there is the clematis which the sparrows nested in last year.....  What we do need to do is make more nest boxes for the tits as there is only that one and another at the other end of the smallholding.  Too late to make more this year, but that is my resolution for next year.

HH  - it's worth your while checking your books, because you will almost certainly have tree sparrows if we have them.  They look very similar to house sparrows but slightly smarter, with a chestnut coloured cap instead of grey, a little dark cheek patch, and a pale ring round the back of the neck.  They seem to hang out with the house sparrows so you can see them side by side to compare.  I like sparrows as they are so cheap but cheerful, not over-endowed with brains perhaps and certainly not blessed with a beautiful voice, but they just get on with their lives with good humour.  I find birds such as green finches and robins to be much more aggressive and brutal, goldfinches too. In fact even the tiny siskins are beating eachother up at the moment.

[Fleecewife]

Update.  All seems to be back to normal, crisis averted    The tree sparrows have nested somewhere else - don't know where yet but it's not in or near the box.  The tits are still in the box and there has been quite a bit of activity today so I wonder if the chicks have hatched.  It's cold and windy and miserable - don't know if that makes food easier to find for the parents.
This seems the best outcome.  Although the tree sparrows have had to find somewhere else, there are plenty of options and it could have led to neither rearing chicks successfully if the fight had continued.
We will definitely put up more boxes for next year.  I will go spying and see if I can find where the tree sparrows finally chose their site.

[HelenVF]

Nature is very fascinating.  My friend gets tree sparrows nesting in her garden so will have to ask her if there are any arguments over where!  We only have house sparrows here and have tried to encourage them with a sparrow terrace, only put up last year, so will wait with fingers crossed.  We do have a bird nesting in an old house martin nest - I think it's a house sparrow but OH isn't so sure.  Bit tricky to get peer in and have a look and I haven't had any joy with sitting and watching - although didn't give it particularly long in this weather!  I just hear them when I am in bed, so possibly roosting, who knows.  We will find out soon.

We do have a blue tit nesting in the nest box and a robin nesting in the old outside toilet.

I read about a blackbird building a nest on top of a pigeon nest the other day.  By all accounts, the pigeon was not happy lol.

Helen

[Penninehillbilly]

Much more interesting than any soap opera!
I was going to suggest seeing if you could put another box up, only just seen this post so I'm obviously too late 
I havent seen a tree sparrow for years, we are on with planting trees (about 4 acres of rough land) and field hedges for wildlife, hopefully we can help.
Plenty of dunnocks about, they get quite cross if I don't let the hens out early, they're waiting to go in for their breakfast . They live in a nearby holly hedge.
Great tits seem to be nesting but not in our nest box.
Good luck to all the families, hope the sparrows find somewhere good, I'm sure they prefer to be peaceful neighbours? 

[Fleecewife]

Another Update
 
I thought I would give you an update on the blue tits and tree sparrows.   In the end the tits clutch failed.  I don't know if it was all the kerfuffle with the sparrows and the eggs had cooled, or been broken, or if they hatched but didn't fledge, but eventually the tit pair moved on.  There are baby blue tits around but not as many as in typical years.  The Tree Sparrows clearly found a suitable nesting site and have successfully hatched a number of young, which hang around on our seed feeder with all the House Sparrows (plus loads of other species)
 
The birds have had quite a hard nesting season here, especially the Blackbirds, which have had three failed nests - one with only one chick which fell from the nest and hanged itself in a forked branch, another where all the chicks were taken by our stoat family (which are unbelievably cute, but love baby bird  ), and a third where all four chicks were found fallen from the nest and dead after a torrential rain storm.
There are lots of baby birds around, especially Siskins, but hardly any Greenfinches again, and no Wrens sighted now for three years.
 
The saddest thing was the young Woodpecker, who had kept us amused with her antics on the feeders for weeks.  The other day there was a huge bang, like a brick hitting the window, and she was lying dead, having flown into the window at full speed and broken her neck  .  She was ceremoniously buried - didn't call the knackers 
 
I will write a separate thread with pics about our House Martins when I have a minute.