[kouvra]

I started a new job as a farm hand a few months ago (a place open to the public rather than a commercial business, like a giant petting zoo!) and although I have a degree in animal science, this is my first taste of practical experience with many of these species since I was a small child, so there's lots I don't know!!

Our two milking goats Thelma (a Saanen x Toggenburg) and Louise (a Nubian mix) left the public barn a week or two ago to dry off, and the barn they are in now is directly across from the muck heap. Whenever I go to empty wheelbarrows they run up towards me bleating, but I've noticed that both of their udders are starting to darken, turning a bruised-black colour. I thought drying off was supposed to be a gradual process, but these two went directly from being milked twice a day to not at all when they left the public barn. Should I be worried for their health, or is this darkening of the udder normal?

Thanks

[wytsend]

Nubians go dark as a matter of course as a result of exposure to bright daylight.....usuallu pinkish just after kidding and dark within a couple of weeks.   Your Saanen cross may have a dark skin naturally.
Don't let the udders overfill even if apparently dry......k.eep a close check & empty if necessary

[Penninehillbilly]

Do you know how much they were giving before 'drying off' sounds a rather sudden stop to me?

[kouvra]

wytsend, Louise did have light but freckled udders before moving, though Thelma is nearly pure white and I can't imagine her udders being anything but pink, even in reaction to sunlight - although the barn they're in now does have an open wall so their pen catches sunlight very well. I didn't know either of them before they kidded so I can't say for sure what either of their "natural" udder colouration is

penninehillbilly, we were getting about 7 litres daily between the two of them. what kind of problems would a sudden stop cause? i was worried about an udderfull of milk that wasn't being emptied just rotting in there...

[jaykay]

That much milk and then just stopping overnight is plain cruel.

It will be incredibly uncomfortable and then will likely lead to mastitis. Which wcan kill off the udder tissue, which will then rot and stink and tear away from the body in strips, attracting flies.

Whoever has just done that should be shot. Why???

The solution is to milk them - and they may need vets attention if they have developed mastitis, for antibiotics and painkillers/anti-inflammatories.

Then, if they're ok, they need drying off gently. Ie milking each day, a bit less each time.

[Sbom]

Are the udders cold? This can be a sign that there dying off

[Anke]

Also make sure (even if taking it slowly by reducing the milking slowly), that they do not receive any concentrate - bets just to put them on a hay-only diet.
 
But please milk them out a bit, if their udders are hot and feel very full. Otherwise you may loose them to mastitis!

[plumseverywhere]

I actually had a horrible dream last night after reading this - I dreamt my own milker had a necrotic udder due to mastitis.
When I dried my maiden off last autumn/winter she was only giving about a pint and a half a day and it was a gradual decrease of milking and concentrate to get her right down.
I'm quite concerned about the welfare aspect of these goats especially if this is a place open to the public...is there a boss or person in charge you can share your concerns with there?

[salopman]

How irrespondsible is this?? A mammal just doesnt stop giving milk in 24hrs - these poor goats need looking at surely, fair play to the lady bringing it to the attention of the group but surely a manager/vet should be told, I hope something is done.

[Penninehillbilly]

Over night I've been thinking about this as well, I'm really concerned about the knowledge/management of this place, luckily it sounds like someone has come in prepared to show more care for the animals, thank you for coming on here and asking. Please bring this to the attention of whoever is in charge immediately. They need helping! that's probably why they are running to you, asking for relief.
They should be milked once a day
Why were these goats taken from the public area?
Are they still being fed? if so cut out the concentrates but make sure they have planty of hay/grass.
I'm a bit worried that things get shoved out of sight and forgotten about, lucky you took note of this.
 
Please keep us informed Kouvra

[kouvra]

Thanks for your input, everyone. I know how different textbook theory can be to the way things are actually done in practice and I'm still learning what counts as an acceptable shortcut, and what's downright unacceptable

I did bring it up with my supervisor and she said it's fine to just stop milking and they've never had any trouble doing that in the past. She also said they shouldn't still be producing much milk when you start drying them off anyway, although I'd still consider 4 litres a day to be a lot! I really don't want to be the kind of newbie who swans in telling those above me how to do their jobs when they've probably been raising livestock since before I was born, but I'm still going to ask the farm manager about it when she's next in.

[jaykay]

Well done for asking, but yes, 4 litres is too much to go from that to nothing. The bruised udders are just that -  bruised 

Can you get someone else to pitch in - and those goats need milking out in the meantime.

[wytsend]

Absolutely......this is a Welfare issue.     
Bruised udders in this way can become necrotic and DROP OFF..........if the goat doesn't die first.
Sorry to be blunt and I realise you are seeking advice but this is now a very seruious matter for this poor goat and may well require Veterinary attention.
I think you should consult the Farm Manager as a matter of urgency by telephone.

[kouvra]

Looking further into the discolouration of goat udders, it seems Toggenburgs are particularly known for it (https://littleffarmdairy.wordpress.com/2010/07/03/getting-it-wrong - nice little blog reference), which may go some way to explain the girls' discolouration, as they are both now under much more sunlight than they were before.

I've also come across one example of "cold-turkey" drying off:
"Some livestock managers will milk once a day for a while, then every-other-day, then stop milking altogether, but this interferes with the major factor responsible for the cessation of milk production: back pressure. Whenever milk accumulates in the udder, it exerts pressure on the milk-producing cells in the mammary tissue, causing them to reduce milk production (this is why animals milked every 8 hours produce more milk than those milked every 12 hours—there is less back pressure on milk-producing cells). If the pressure persists, the cells will eventually cease milk production altogether, which is exactly the goal of the drying-off process." (http://smallfarms.oregonstate.edu/sfn/su10dryinglivestock if anyone is interested in the full reference)
Although this one does say that goats should be on a low nutritional plane for at least 2 weeks before drying off, so they are not producing more that 3l of milk per day. It also warns against cold, bluish skin which can indicate gangrene mastitis.

[Penninehillbilly]

It may work, it may not, but think of the accumilation (sp?) of 4ltr a day before her body realises it's not going anywhere. I see your point about not wanting to go in acting like a know-it-all, but I think it's cruel to do it this sudden. I would have dropped to once a day for a week or so, cutting concentrates down drastically.