Author Topic: Hello  (Read 6002 times)

Bullbythehorns

  • Joined Apr 2012
Hello
« on: April 18, 2012, 03:53:54 pm »
I'd love to take on the exciting challenge of becoming a smallholder. We, my wife and two young kids,  live in Scotland and have only just started looking at possible future smallholdings. I'd really appreciate some feedback from those already much further down the path than me. My initial questions are all based around making sound financial decisions.

First of all I currently own a property in Glasgow which I would be selling in order to buy a suitable place. I anticipate receiving around 200K with a further 50K savings.

Assuming I was able to generate enough income from elsewhere for basic only living expenses what  kind of money/savings should I be thinking about requiring to invest ( in addition to buying the property/land itself) in creating a smallholding that can actually provide a reasonable amount of sustenance and/or provide an income stream. I know that is a how long is a piece of string type question!

From my initial websearching there is place in Dumfries and Galloway;  17 acres of grazing land with a small vegetable garden and a farm buildings for guide price of 220K. Would that be a good starting point? Or should I start smaller and have a bigger nest egg?

I'm curious to what extent people have been able to make it to the situation where they are mostly self sufficient and/or are  generating any kind of dependable income.

Another question we'd be hoping to create a small business using the smallholding as a base for starting a small (maybe food related) business. Would I better off concentrating on that aspect first of all?

I really love the idea of just jumping into this but I'm just wary that I will be taking on a range of entirely new challenges.

Would people advise a year of planning before taking this leap or as I am in position to go for it now or should I just learn 'on the job'?

I look forward to your collective wisdom!

Dan

  • The Accidental Smallholder
  • Administrator
  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Carnoustie, Angus
    • The Accidental Smallholder
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Re: Hello
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 08:47:17 pm »
Hello, and welcome to TAS.  :wave:

These are great questions, and the hardest to answer because every one of us has different personal circumstances, goals, tolerances to hardship  ;) etc, but it's good you're asking them!

Start by thinking about what you actually want to spend your time focussing on, and what you enjoy doing - is it livestock, horticulture, fruit/veg production, or a mixture. If it's just you or you + 1 there's a limit to how much you can do, and specialising in / concentrating on one enterprise is probably the way to go - do all the other things as well, but decide where you're going to make your mark, assuming you're going to be selling something for income.

Bear in mind that not all grazing is equal. Those 17 acres in D&G might be fantastically fertile, and support a good flock of sheep, herd of cattle or other livestock, year on year. Or it might be an inch of stony topsoil on top of bedrock. So it's essential you make the right investment in land - you need to be working with the land's natural state, not against it.

This should be interesting reading for you, the Small is Successful project which is looking at income from small acreages: http://www.ecologicalland.coop/projects-small-successful

Download the PDF here, and read the case studies: http://www.ecologicalland.coop/sites/ecologicalland.coop/files/Small_is_Successful.pdf

We're on 12 acres and just entering our third year here. We've invested a lot of capital and time into the smallholding, and are starting to see the returns - egg sales, meat sales, a new orchard planted, and lots of ideas.

Good luck in whatever you decide, and look forward to hearing more about it.  :thumbsup:

Dan

Hermit

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Hello
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 09:45:22 pm »
Hi, I would get some experience in livestock and land management while you are looking, are there smallholders courses by you?  It has taken us 9 yrs to get to the point we are at now which is self sufficient in most things including fuel. One person will need to work especially if you are going into this with a mortgage, and self sufficiency does not mean all free, food bills, vet bills , household bills etc still need to be paid. If you sell a lot of produce in summer the rest of the year will eat your profits so dont rely on making money from smallholding. Smallholding is a lifestyle change , very few can make a profit and live on that profit. A great boon is a trade, a great bartering tool. I f you get a registered croft there may be grants available but we dont claim a penny and they keep changing so you had better check on those at the time. Also one of the most important things could you eat or take to slaughter your own stock that you have bred? could you kill a chicken? a hard bridge to cross when it comes to it.Whatever you decide, take it steady,Shetlanders have seen so many folk come and 'do it all ' and fail by being too enthusiastic and then go back home again.I f you take it steady and do each job well first time you will build up to a full running smallholding in no time , instead of playing catchup, mending and finishing jobs the whole time. The very best of luck on your new adventure, we have done it now and got where we are happy to be but I still get jealous of the excitement folk have of setting out.

Nell

  • Joined Apr 2012
  • Nr Thornhill, Dumfries
Re: Hello
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 10:07:23 pm »
Hi and welcome from another newbie. I'm in D&G if you need any help or advice on potential places. It all depends on what you want from a smallholding. For that price, if I'm honest, it sounds like it'll need some work to get on its feet, but again it depends where it is and what your plans are.

Mammyshaz

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • Durham
Re: Hello
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 10:13:47 pm »
Hello, and welcome from Durham

Bullbythehorns

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Hello
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 04:14:25 am »
Thanks for the welcome and appreciate those links. Some great case studies there and especially good to see some realistic figures included. Lots of hard work fpr sure and the rewards are unlikely to be primarily monetary! Still great to hear about viable efforts and those in the process of creating them.

Hermit

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Hello
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 09:37:28 am »
If you want to come this far north , look at Brattahlid on the Tait and Peterson website. Ready made..Been for sale for a long time now so they may accapt an offer.

Bullbythehorns

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Hello
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 11:10:08 am »
Interesting looking place  thanks for sharing. Looks like any goldfish in that pond though might end up as an exotic foreign snack for that otter...

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: Hello
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 12:04:39 pm »
Just had look at Brattahild Hermit, if only OH could get a job in Shetland I would move in a shot. Would not be able to afford that lovely croft but something smaller. Would re-comend Shetland to anyone who was looking for a better way of life.

Welcome to the forum Bullbythehorns  :wave:

Hermit

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Hello
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 04:27:29 pm »
Ha Ha , yes you have to watch the pesky otters, they are our foxes. A friend of mine thought a heron was taking her goldfish until she saw an otter having a good chomp on one! When are you up next Sabrina?

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: Hello
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2012, 04:39:00 pm »
No plans to come up this year as yet but maybe my mother will get home sick again. She so misses Shetland and at 81 her friends there are slowly passing away. One of my Stallions will up for the summer.

Mel

  • Guest
Re: Hello
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2012, 09:58:44 pm »
Hi and welcome from Northants,we wish you well   :wave:

Lesley Silvester

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Telford
Re: Hello
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2012, 11:14:47 pm »
 :wave:  Hi and welcome from soggy Shropshire.  I'm looking forward to hearing how your dream progresses.  Good luck.

Bullbythehorns

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Hello
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 12:19:48 am »
Hi Hermit. My wife and I are very  taken with the property you pointed us towards in Shetland. We are actually discussing taking a trip up there to get a feel for the island itself as well as checking out Brattahlid in more detail. Beautiful place.


Big Light

  • Joined Aug 2011
    • Facebook
Re: Hello
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 07:46:24 am »
Welcome ,
               lots of sensible questions Animals / Smallholdings are money pits to start off with, you will never have exactly what you have in your mind to start off with so then it will cost you to strive to have what you want whether its an Orchard / Bees / Sheep / polytunnel etc they all cost. There are various ways of starting if you are cautious and not in a rush then scan the local adds / eBay / gumtree etc and try and pick up what you need at bargain prices or Free on occasion. You can go to auctions. Instead of buying your Orchard from the reputable garden website you can buy bare rooted trees out of Lidls in Feb for £4 a time instead of £20 takes a little longer for establishment but more affordable on a big scale. Be miserable its great

 Animals potentially need expensive vet medicine / treatment on occasion and if you have no or little experience then you are more likely to use a vet more often - If you can find a ( physical) mentor or assist somewhere similar to what your looking to establish then then that would help.

Although i have mentioned bargains always be wary of bargain animals - there will be a true stories, some one having a change in circumstance etc but there is those that will burden you with something that's ill doing / not right also.

As previously suggested, i don't know your circumstance, but i think reality dictates that you need at least one wage if not two to live on  at least for the first 5 - 10 years to get things established ( unless you can find an ongoing concern with things ready to crop / slaughter / other produce to give income). This unfortunately then takes time away from getting things established.

Other options are to find a place with a tourist interest, an annex / cottage you could rent out to tourists. A shed that could be easily (and probably expensively) converted or extra rooms for B&B

Assess the potential for other sources of income or reducing out goings - even renewables - wind / water power ( needs initial cash investment).

Also remember thing are seasonal ( especially in Scotland). If you had no money would you fancy a winter of eating Kale and turnips!. - personally i feed them to sheep and eat them  ;)

I assume you still have a property to sell, i would start with that then you now exactly what you have to play with and you are also a buyer with a little power. Its nice to shop online and take note of whats available at what price -also you can see what has been sitting on the market

 We had two house to sell managed that then got a rental, bought a plot and converted a barn with an acre then bought another 5 acres with the building vat refund etc. Whole process took 3 years, so i wouldn't wait too long if it's what you want to do. My BH tells me to add "remember it will cost more than you think"

As for generating a dependable income, I'm not entirely sure anyone on here does - other will have outside incomes - even writing books / articles for specialist magazines / running courses etc to assist with finances - but you really need to have some experiences to be able to do this.

If anyone has managed to make a dependable income from small holding i think we would all be interested on how they did / do it. ( almost new thread time)!!

Good luck

OH forgot about authorities make sure you read the rules and regs for selling what you are going to produce and can comply with them without spending a fortune
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 08:00:15 am by Big Light »

 

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